Summicron flare vs Zeiss Biogon

ericdan · Dec 29, 2014

I've shot a Zeiss Biogon 35mm f/2.8 for a year and a half without a hood but a Zeiss UV filter on it 100% of the time. Never had any issues with flare. The lens was very usable at f/2.8, no distortion and super sharp. The only problem was that I always wanted that extra stop of light.
Long story short, I eventually sold the Zeiss and bought a 35mm summicron (1996 model).

I shoot a fair bit of slide film and the extra stop comes in handy. While the extra stop is very nice, the flare I've been getting is not.
I've shot the summicron with a Marumi skylite 1b filter and the flare is pretty bad. Without filter it's acceptable, but not as robust as the Zeiss with a filter.

I think a hood would improve the flaring, but Leica hoods are expensive.
Indulging in the summicron certainly opened a can of worms.

Can the 700 dollar Zeiss Biogon really be THAT much better than the Summicron which costs multiple times as much?

Sirius Glass · Dec 29, 2014

In a word yes. The Zeiss Biogon is the heart of the Hasselblad SWC and it is rectilinearly correct.

ericdan · Dec 29, 2014

The Zeiss is only slightly heavier and bigger than the summicron, but from my experience so far it beats the summicron by leaps and bounds.
I just wonder why Zeiss went for f/2.8 - f/22 instead of f/2.0 - f/16
Everybody wants the extra stop at the wide open end.

Pioneer · Dec 29, 2014

I don't shoot the ZM Biogon, though I have considered buying one several times.

I do however shoot the old Biogon on my Contax II. I love it and have no problem with flare. But, to be fair, the front objective is surrounded by enough metal to act like a hood.

Sirius Glass · Dec 29, 2014

All lenses involve design trade offs. The f/2.8 limit maybe to eliminate one of the optical aberrations from the lens. It is not a simple matter of sliding a scale. If one f/stop is important to you, then use a faster film or a slower shutter speed.

ericdan · Dec 29, 2014

Just from looking at it the front element, the summicron seems to sit deeper than on the biogon.
Choosing a faster film is not that simple when it comes to slide film. But I get your point.

Xmas · Dec 29, 2014

ericdan said:
Just from looking at it the front element, the summicron seems to sit deeper than on the biogon.
Choosing a faster film is not that simple when it comes to slide film. But I get your point.

Leica used to sell their lenses in a box with hood.
Get a used hood they protect against slabs of concrete as well as photons.
Try a CV /1.4 SC and MC outside a brick camera shop door.
Cheaper still and although the SC will flare more your slides will look different.
I use a 35mm LTM canon /2 from '62 for the soft muted signature with a Leica 35mm hood blue tacked on!
For dull days a CV /2.5 in LTM for the deep optional optimal hood.

Lens signature is subjective.

ericdan · Dec 29, 2014

I bought my summicron used. It seems that everybody in Japan sells lens and hood separately to make more money. The hoods sell used for 150 USD here. New they are 250 USD from what I saw in Leica's catalog. Really hard to believe that a piece of rubber can cost that much...

miha · Dec 29, 2014

So without the filter the difference is small you say? I say Marumi sucks. Is it multicoated?

Xmas · Dec 29, 2014

ericdan said:
I bought my summicron used. It seems that everybody in Japan sells lens and hood separately to make more money. The hoods sell used for 150 USD here. New they are 250 USD from what I saw in Leica's catalog. Really hard to believe that a piece of rubber can cost that much...

Yes I understand USD my canon lens about 500 USD mint and 'user' condition hood about 100 USD.

CV 40mm or 35mm + hood single or multi are cheaper and /1.4...

Leica lenses need hoods, either flare or hood.

I've lent my hood to DLeica people on shoots cause their need was greater than mine.

bdial · Dec 29, 2014

You don't have to use a Leica hood.
Part of what you pay for is that the Leica hood is perfectly matched to the lens (in theory). A generic hood won't be, but may work well enough to accomplish what you need.
OTH, a 10 dollar hood on a 100 dollar lens is 10%, and the Leica hood is more or less the same.

Xmas · Dec 29, 2014

Well the hood was/is supplied with the 35mm cron pre asph (as well) and asph 28mm Elmarit, but can also be used full frame on the type II (pre asph) Summilux 35mm (the last with blue tack to prevent rotation}. It is a rectangular semi double cone.

And clears the viewfinder image frame, though Id not detect that since I use both eyes.

All the leica hoods are >>USD...

I also use it on the Canon LTM 35mm /2 and 28mm /2.8 it is just tight (shading slightly) on the 28mm, (again with blue tack), thought about using a file for the 28mm.

It is important to note that it will stop a lens hitting the pavement/sidewalk...

mnemosyne · Dec 29, 2014

Xmas said:
Well the hood was/is supplied with the 35mm cron pre asph (as well) and asph 28mm Elmarit, but can also be used full frame on the type II (pre asph) Summilux 35mm (the last with blue tack to prevent rotation}. It is a rectangular semi double cone.

And clears the viewfinder image frame, though Id not detect that since I use both eyes.

All the leica hoods are >>USD...

I also use it on the Canon LTM 35mm /2 and 28mm /2.8 it is just tight (shading slightly) on the 28mm, (again with blue tack), thought about using a file for the 28mm.

It is important to note that it will stop a lens hitting the pavement/sidewalk...

What is "blue tack"?

Ricardo Miranda · Dec 29, 2014

There you go!

mnemosyne · Dec 29, 2014

Ricardo Miranda said:
There you go!

Oh, thanks, I see now, had never seen or heard of it in Germany, but I see now that "Blu Tack" is even referenced in the German wikipedia. So, I will apply a (very thin, presumably?) layer of that sticky substance on the lens barrel and that will keep the hood in place once it is pushed on? Sorry for my ignorant question ...

Xmas · Dec 29, 2014

mnemosyne said:
Oh, thanks, I see now, had never seen or heard of it in Germany, but I see now that "Blu Tack" is even referenced in the German wikipedia. So, I will apply a (very thin, presumably?) layer of that sticky substance on the lens barrel and that will keep the hood in place once it is pushed on? Sorry for my ignorant question ...

Simpler the hood is clip on and indexes exactly for rotation on the Leica lenses as they have a key slot to align with a key on the hood and it is held on in a 2nd slot except for

The non apsh type II Summilux where it clips on securely in a similar slot but will rotate as there is no key way and a dab of blue tack will stop it rotating. It would vignette if it rotated as it is rectangular (like the 35mm full frame). It is more effective than the normal Lux hood which is round.

If you have the pre asph lux any flare improvement is desirable.

On a Canon lens (28 /2.8, 35 /2 or 50 mm /1.8 i.e. 42 mm push on) the clips will hold on the low profile Canon filters but again it might rotate and needs a dab pf blue tack to stop the rotation, and lock it more securely.

A bit 'to practical' if you like your Leica like factory but the factory lux hood is not very effective, especially if you fit a series filter to it.

The blue tack is useful for lots of in the field fixes e.g. if a screw falls out...

Colin Corneau · Dec 29, 2014

ericdan said:
The Zeiss is only slightly heavier and bigger than the summicron, but from my experience so far it beats the summicron by leaps and bounds.
I just wonder why Zeiss went for f/2.8 - f/22 instead of f/2.0 - f/16
Everybody wants the extra stop at the wide open end.

I have a v1 35 'Cron and can count the number of times I've shot it wide open on one hand. If I had it to do over again I'd probably go with a Zeiss myself -- but as others have noted, this is subjective.

Might be worth posting a "Want To Buy" ad here for a hood, or check eBay. I seem to recall a **lot** of camera stores in Tokyo (at least from reading the Tokyo Camera Style and Japan Camera Hunter blogs) so finding one on its own may be a possibility, too.

AgX · Dec 29, 2014

miha said:
So without the filter the difference is small you say? I say Marumi sucks. Is it

multicoated?

But even if uncoated, I don't see how one single uncoated surface added to an otherwise multicoated multi-lens system could significantly alter the image quality.

mnemosyne · Dec 29, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
In a word yes. The Zeiss Biogon is the heart of the Hasselblad SWC and it is rectilinearly correct.

I am not sure if I can follow you. You are saying that there is a connection between rectilinear correctness and flare resistance in a lens?

Richard S. (rich815) · Dec 29, 2014

I have the 35/2 ZM Biogon I use on my M2 and MP. Absolutely amazing lens. Used it with a B+W MC UV filter for a spell (it came with the lens when I bought it used) and then found a used dedicated Zeiss hood for it and grabbed that (too expensive new!) and now use it with the hood alone unless I'm at the beach or in dusty conditions (frankly I hate "protective" filters). Never any flare issues that I can recall and I'd imagine the f/2 would have more flare potential than the f/2.8 version.

Sirius Glass · Dec 29, 2014

mnemosyne said:
I am not sure if I can follow you. You are saying that there is a connection between rectilinear correctness and flare resistance in a lens?

The Zeiss Biogon lens is a great step above other wide angles lenses in the same field of view including rectilinear correctness and flare resistance.

Vilk · Dec 29, 2014

the burden of finding a satisfying 35 for my Ms eventually made me dump the L-brand altogether... play, explore, have fun--but remember there is always plan B... or D!

Xmas · Dec 29, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
The Zeiss Biogon lens is a great step above other wide angles lenses in the same field of view including rectilinear correctness and flare resistance.

Hey they are good for MTF off axis as well.

And Cosina can manufacture too.

But they also do several other lenses in M and LTM.

Lot cheaper than Leica.

Most of time I use canon LTM from 60s for the 60 signature so I don't need to photo shop.

I like the bleed and blur of high lights.

sterile studio no no.

NJH · Dec 30, 2014

On the subject of hoods both biogon 35s share the same hood as the planar 50. I have one on my 50 a lot, OK some don't like the silver bit at the end of Zeiss lenses but in terms of functionality its perfect for quickly clipping on or off their hoods which are spring loaded (leaf spring) to positively retain them for minimal effort.

Xmas · Dec 30, 2014

NJH said:
On the subject of hoods both biogon 35s share the same hood as the planar 50. I have one on my 50 a lot, OK some don't like the silver bit at the end of Zeiss lenses but in terms of functionality its perfect for quickly clipping on or off their hoods which are spring loaded (leaf spring) to positively retain them for minimal effort.

Think the hood for the 40mm CV /1.4 is the same as well (apart from the name plate), but they are also expensive

Summicron flare vs Zeiss Biogon

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