Suitable chemistry substitutions

[HowBoutThemRedSox]

My existing list of basic B&W chemicals includes D-76, Dektol, Ilford Rapid Fix, Heico Perma Wash, Photoflo, and Kodak RST. I just paid $46.50 for five gallons of Perma Wash and $21.95 for five liters of Rapid Fix. It's time to look for similarly performing substitutes. I have a copy of the Anchell recipe book but am not inclined to build a chemistry lab. I have looked at Photographers' Formulary's offerings but do not know enough about them to understand the ramifications of changing. Anyone have advice about substitutes for the D-76 (too short a shelf life) and the Perma Wash and Fixer (too expensive)?

 

[juan]

If you're having a problem with D-76 having too short a shelf life, I'd suggest you look into a liquid, 1-shot developer. There's a lot on this site about HC-110 and Rodinal. They are different developers, but research and practice should allow you to make the change and get the results you want. Photography is more about you than materials.
juan

 

[Anon Ymous]

$46,50 for washing aid? Ouch! You can use 20g of sodium sulfite (about a spoon) in 1l/1quart of water. It does the same thing and it won't oxidise as liquid (premixed) wash aids do. Just mix when needed and toss after the session.

 

[fschifano]

If D-76's shelf life is a problem for you, and you like the performance of the product, then HC-110 might be just the thing for you. It will deliver results that are not identical to, but pretty close to what you get with D-76. The concentrate lasts a very long time. I have an open bottle that is I don't know how old (it was given to me already opened a couple of years back) and it still works as new.

For fixer, I use Kodak's Flexicolor Fixer and Replenisher. Yes, it's made for C-41 but that doesn't matter. It is a rapid fixer that is very fast and lasts a long time. It's cheap too. You can buy enough liquid concentrate to make 5 gallons of working solution for less than $10 US. See Dead Link Removed. I dilute the working solution to 1/2 strength and it still works well. No worries with this one. It's just great for film and paper.

Perma Wash is nothing more than a sodum sulfite solution. It's totally unnecessary for film and RC papers since these materials wash out fast and completely in short order. Like Anon, I just mix up a spoonful of sodium sulfite into 1L of water to treat FB prints and that works just as well as the commercially prepared wash aids.

I'd suggest you add some stop bath to your chemistry set. It's cheap, and can circumvent all sorts of problems that can happen with an insufficient plain water stop.

 

[Anscojohn]

a two percent solution of sodium carbonate makes a suitable washing aid. Store the D76 in smaller bottles. A non-hardening fixer (Kodak F24) can be mixed up from hypo and sodium bisulfite. Use diluted plain white vinegar for stop bath (not sure it's cheaper, though, than dilute EK stop bath).

 

[wclark5179]

If you are having short life issues with D-76 stock solution perhaps consider this, I use 2 empty liter soda bottles that work very well as the plastic doesn't react with the chemistry and the cap seals very well many times over. I've got stock solution 2 yrs. old that still works fine. You can buy soda in green bottles which I use but the clear work as well for me. I keep them in a cabinet under the bathroom sink.

Hope this helps you!

 

[Mark Fisher]

5 liters of permawash is a lot. You only use an ounce or two per session.

 

[Martin Aislabie]

Perma Wash for either Film or RC paper is unneccessary - they wash quickly and efficiently in tap water

I decant my 5L bottle of Fix into smaller bottles to extend its useful shelf life - Coca Cola PET plastic bottles are almost ideal.

Martin

 

[el wacho]

vinegar for stopbath at 1:50 ...

 

[Anon Ymous]

vinegar for stopbath at 1:50 ...

I didn't know my neighbors had such a potent vinegar!
Seriously speaking, a 6% vinegar (common acidity here) needs to be diluted at about 1+3 for a 1,5% stop bath. At 1:50 it's not much of a stop bath I suppose.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

...$21.95 for five liters of Rapid Fix...

I wish, I could get it that cheap.

Look at this:

http://www.calumetphoto.com/ctl?query=Ilford+Hypam&x=0&y=0&ac.ui.pn=search.Search

$25.99 in the US

http://www.calumetphoto.de/ctl?query=ilford+hypam&x=0&y=0&ac.ui.pn=search.Search

€35.45 in Germany. That's $52.82. What is Calumet doing to us?

You may think: EU import tax and VAT. Oh no, look at that:

http://www.calumetphoto.nl/ctl?query=ilford+hypam&x=0&y=0&ac.ui.pn=search.Search

€21.98 or $32.75 in the Netherlands (one hour drive for me)

I don't get it, but raw chemicals are getting expensive too, unless you buy in bulk.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

5 liters of permawash is a lot. You only use an ounce or two per session.

He said 5 gallons!

 

[el wacho]

an old timer told me about vinegar at 1:50 and used it without question ever since mind you you may have to change it after around 8 sheets. you can feel the slimeyness dimish suddenly after say, about 25 secs.

 

[2F/2F]

HC-110 used 1:63 (dilution H) will save you money over D-76, and give close to the same results as D-76 1:1. If you only mix up small amounts of stock as needed, the syrup will last forever and be dead-on consistent. You can get very close to 100% use of HC-110 if you do not mix it all up at once, no matter how long it sits. (Even the stock lasts a very long time in half full bottles.) It is this that gives it the economy advantage over D-76, not the calculated actual cost per roll assuming 100% use (which is actually lower for D-76).

Kodak Hypo Clearing agent is very cheap: Under $3 per quart of stock. The stock is diluted 1:4 to make a working solution that lasts a day. This is enough to let you do five days of processing if using a one liter tank, 10 days of processing if using a 500 mL tank, or 20 days of processing if using a 250 mL tank. Therefore, the more batches you do per day's-worth of working solution that you mix up, the more economy you get. I try to do at least two one-liter batches in a day when I sit down to process. That way I use the entire 250 mL of HC stock (the minimum I mix at any one time), and I get some extra money's worth out of the daily batches of HCA and Photo Flo.

Vinegar for stop bath won't save you any money worth mentioning. Just stick with Kodak Indicator Stop Bath or something like it, filter it as you pour it, and use it to its capacity. As it is right now, I am spending about a dollar a year on Indicator Stop Bath by using it not even to its capacity. At my current rate, I will have had my bottle for about 8 years before I need to replace it. I think it cost me six or seven dollars...and I know exactly when I need to toss it, because it turns purple...no guessing.

The price you are paying for the Ilford Rapid Fixer is a good price. I buy it for $10 a liter because it lasts long enough for my volume of use, and I don't want to deal with the big container of it. Those five liters of Rapid Fixer concentrate give you 25 liters of film fixer working solution for $22. Not bad, if you ask me.

 

[2F/2F]

P.S. An easy way to figure out your cost per batch with HC-110: Used at dilution B (1 part concentrate to 31 parts water = 32 parts total), you get a one-quart (32 oz.) batch of working solution for every ounce of concentrate. Therefore, with the 16 oz. bottle it comes in, you get 16 one-quart batches. You get to do four rolls of 35mm or two rolls of 120/220 per quart. This lets you process 64 rolls of 35mm or 32 rolls of medium format for your $15, or whatever the HC costs you. That is about a dollar a batch, which means 25 cents per roll of 35mm or 50 cents per roll of 120/220. At dilution H, you get double this economy: 50 cents per quart batch. Not too shabby for a developer that will never go bad and will always be consistent.

 

[el wacho]

it'll save me money cause the postage is killing me !!

 

[HowBoutThemRedSox]

Thanks to everyone for the advice! I certainly will change the wash aid and mix my own. I also have some direction to experiment with alternatives for both the developer and fixer.

I also found an interesting discussion in another thread about D76 vs Xtol. Xtol, along with HC110, may have some value as an option to D76.

Thanks again folks.
David

 

[rwboyer]

Thanks to everyone for the advice! I certainly will change the wash aid and mix my own. I also have some direction to experiment with alternatives for both the developer and fixer.

I also found an interesting discussion in another thread about D76 vs Xtol. Xtol, along with HC110, may have some value as an option to D76.

Thanks again folks.
David

Prepackaged Pyrocat HD in glycol lasts forever and it is dirt cheap. Very flexible as well. Comes to about .50 - .60 cents per liter - extremely economical.

RB

 

[Reinhold]

Another source for rapid fixer is Photo Warehouse, Oxnard, California:

http://www.photowarehouse.biz/ulunrafilico3.html

5 gallons concentrate (60 Pounds!!!) to make 50 Gallons (@1+9) is $44.50.
Shipping to Washington State is $26.25.
Total cost $71.25 equals $14.25 per gallon (10 gallons @ 1+9), delivered.
Packaged as a couple of 2.5 gallon jugs... Split one with a buddy.


Reinhold

www.classicBWphoto.com

 

[Loren Sattler]

I find the chemicals are all fairly inexpensive when compared to the cost of the paper you pass through the chemicals. Perhaps you are not using them to exhaustion.