Suggestions for where to have a black and white photography zine printed

logan2z · Mar 1, 2024

I'm not sure where else to put this so hopefully the mods will move it if there's a more appropriate forum.

I've designed a zine containing some of my black and white photographs and I'm having a heck of a time getting it printed with the quality I'm after. I used a popular online printing service and paid for a couple of test prints but wasn't happy with the quality - when printed using their greyscale service the blacks were washed out. Switching to their 4-color service resulted in an obvious green color cast to the images.

I decided to try and find a local printer who I could work with face to face. I found one who was willing to give the project a try, but after many attempts he concluded that he couldn't do blacks any better than the online service I was using. He also struggled to correctly align the zine's double page spreads. In the end, he told me I'd be better off using another service with a higher quality machine.

I should note that both of these printing company's used a digital press given the relatively low number of copies I wanted to print. I'm sure I could get better quality using an offset press but I don't have a need for 1500 copies of my zine. I don't have that many relatives

Has anyone printed a zine containing their black and white photography and can recommend a good company to print it with good, consistent quality?

Pieter12 · Mar 1, 2024

logan2z said:
I'm not sure where else to put this so hopefully the mods will move it if there's a more appropriate forum.

I've designed a zine containing some of my black and white photographs and I'm having a heck of a time getting it printed with the quality I'm after. I used a popular online printing service and paid for a couple of test prints but wasn't happy with the quality - when printed using their greyscale service the blacks were washed out. Switching to their 4-color service resulted in an obvious green color cast to the images.

I decided to try and find a local printer who I could work with face to face. I found one who was willing to give the project a try, but after many attempts he concluded that he couldn't do blacks any better than the online service I was using. He also struggled to correctly align the zine's double page spreads. In the end, he told me I'd be better off using another service with a higher quality machine.

I should note that both of these printing company's used a digital press given the relatively low number of copies I wanted to print. I'm sure I could get better quality using an offset press but I don't have a need for 1500 copies of my zine. I don't have that many relatives

Has anyone printed a zine containing their black and white photography and can recommend a good company to print it with good, consistent quality?

I have used MagCloud with mixed results. The first run was OK, second washed out. But zines traditionally are low-quality, originally being made with copy machines. "A zine (/ziːn/ ZEEN; short for magazine or fanzine) is a small-circulation self-published work of original or appropriated texts and images, usually reproduced via a copy machine."

Pieter12 · Mar 1, 2024

I found the comparison shot I send to MagCloud trying to get the job reprinted. They said it was within their tolerances. The top is the reprint, the bottom the original.

runswithsizzers · Mar 1, 2024

What "popular online printing service" was it that you tried?

Blurb prints magazines <https://www.blurb.com/magazine> but I have never had a magazine printed.

I have had several photo books printed by them, and I think their quality is pretty good. I did have one book that came back with an unpleasant blue tint to my b&w photos, but they reprinted that book for me, and the second attempt was fine. If you want to look at an example of a Blurb photo book, click here <https://www.blurb.com/b/11131448-selected-monochromes>, click on the book, zoom it up to full screen, and you can flip through the book.

Here is a list of Blurb's design tools <https://www.blurb.com/bookmaking-tools>. I have used both their desktop software (BookWright) and also the book module which is built into Adobe Lightroom. If you have the option to use Lightroom, I would recommend that -- unless your book has a lot of text that needs to flow from page-to-page, in which case use their clunky BookWright software. However, I am guessing you might be more interested in something like their "PDF to Book" option(?) -- which I have never used.

Good luck!

Pieter12 · Mar 1, 2024

Just a note—MagCloud is a subsidiary of Blurb. Whatever service you choose make sure you use their profiles before you put the images in.

fgorga · Mar 1, 2024

You have discovered the limitations of the glorified copy machines used for short run printing. Welcome to the crowd!!!

Of the on-line services, I have been satisfied with MagCloud for books that are a mix of color and black & white images.

You don't say how many copies you want nor how many pages you have. If both of these parameters are manageable, I would suggest a do-it-yourself approach. This way you can get the same quality as you get with your regular prints and the satisfaction of hand-made objects.

There is certainly a learning curve to the do-it-yourself approach, but it is not difficult.

Make a template in Photoshop and prepare your folios. Print the folios on double-sided paper. You will want to use a matte paper as most luster/gloss papers don't fold without the coating cracking. My 'go to' paper is Harman Matte Fiber Duo. Next fold the folios and assemble the pages. Add a cover which can be just some card stock at the simple end or you can get as fancy as you want. I often laminate a decorative paper to white card stock for covers. The last step is the binding. Center stapling is simplest but using a simple pamphlet stitch is much more elegant and not difficult to learn.

I use the do-it-yourself approach for editions of five or six copies with folio counts of three or four (i.e. twelve or sixteen pages). This usually means ten or fourteen images as I always have a title page and a colophon.

I'll try to post a few photos of my handmade books, but it probably won't be until Sunday... sorry.

logan2z · Mar 1, 2024

Pieter12 said:
I have used MagCloud with mixed results. The first run was OK, second washed out. But zines traditionally are low-quality, originally being made with copy machines. "A zine (/ziːn/ ZEEN; short for magazine or fanzine) is a small-circulation self-published work of original or appropriated texts and images, usually reproduced via a copy machine."

I'm not looking for Steidl level print quality Just something along the lines of a zine from Cafe Royal Books. If either of the companies I tried had provided that level of quality I would have been more than happy.

logan2z · Mar 1, 2024

Pieter12 said:
I found the comparison shot I send to MagCloud trying to get the job reprinted. They said it was within their tolerances. The top is the reprint, the bottom the original.

View attachment 364329

Thanks for that comparison shot. Yeah, the MagCloud version looks a lot like what I got from the online printing service I used - maybe a bit better. It was their recommendation to go with 4-color CMYK to get richer blacks, but the color cast was terrible and they essentially said they couldn't do anything about it.

logan2z · Mar 1, 2024

runswithsizzers said:
What "popular online printing service" was it that you tried?

Mixam. They are one of the more popular printing companies for printing zines. Their ordering system is very easy to use and their customer service has been excellent, but I can't get them to produce a decent black and white photo zine.

runswithsizzers said:
Here is a list of Blurb's design tools <https://www.blurb.com/bookmaking-tools>. I have used both their desktop software (BookWright) and also the book module which is built into Adobe Lightroom. If you have the option to use Lightroom, I would recommend that -- unless your book has a lot of text that needs to flow from page-to-page, in which case use their clunky BookWright software. However, I am guessing you might be more interested in something like their "PDF to Book" option(?) -- which I have never used.

Good luck!

I've used BookWright in the past too and it's pretty good. I used InDesign to produce my current zine and it made things like double-page spreads very easy to create.

logan2z · Mar 1, 2024

Pieter12 said:
Just a note—MagCloud is a subsidiary of Blurb.

Yup, I know.

Maybe I'll give their 5.25 x 8.25" saddle stitched digest a try. They're about 2x as expensive as the company I was using, but if the quality is better then it might be worth it.

logan2z · Mar 1, 2024

fgorga said:
You have discovered the limitations of the glorified copy machines used for short run printing. Welcome to the crowd!!!

Aren't I lucky

fgorga said:
You don't say how many copies you want nor how many pages you have. If both of these parameters are manageable, I would suggest a do-it-yourself approach. This way you can get the same quality as you get with your regular prints and the satisfaction of hand-made objects.

I'm probably only going to print about 50 copies of the zine at most. It contains 48 pages. The DIY approach did cross my mind, but I figured it would be relatively easy to get a printing company to produce something as simple as a black and white zine.

fgorga said:
I'll try to post a few photos of my handmade books, but it probably won't be until Sunday... sorry.

I'd love to see them.

albireo · Mar 1, 2024

logan2z said:
I'm not sure where else to put this so hopefully the mods will move it if there's a more appropriate forum.

I've designed a zine containing some of my black and white photographs and I'm having a heck of a time getting it printed with the quality I'm after. I used a popular online printing service and paid for a couple of test prints but wasn't happy with the quality - when printed using their greyscale service the blacks were washed out. Switching to their 4-color service resulted in an obvious green color cast to the images.

I decided to try and find a local printer who I could work with face to face. I found one who was willing to give the project a try, but after many attempts he concluded that he couldn't do blacks any better than the online service I was using. He also struggled to correctly align the zine's double page spreads. In the end, he told me I'd be better off using another service with a higher quality machine.

I should note that both of these printing company's used a digital press given the relatively low number of copies I wanted to print. I'm sure I could get better quality using an offset press but I don't have a need for 1500 copies of my zine. I don't have that many relatives

Has anyone printed a zine containing their black and white photography and can recommend a good company to print it with good, consistent quality?

Logan sorry to hijack your thread - I'm interested in your question but I'd like to push the boat a little further.

Let's say you wanted to print not 50, but 500 copies. And let's say that you wanted this to be your lifetime project. A book collecting 50 of your favourite pictures, to share with your closest 500 relatives (I know, we have big families where I come from). Let's say you wanted Steidl or MACK or Aperture or heck even Thames & Hudson quality, or close. Self paid of course.

How would you do it? Online services wouldn't cut it, I gather? Could you in theory get in touch with MACK with a pdf proof and a budget of -no idea here- 20K$?

Pieter12 · Mar 2, 2024

If you want professional photo book quality, you need to go to a high-end book printer. Offset press, true pre-press work from drum scans with proper match print or even press proofs. Depending on the originals maybe a 6-color press with UV varnish. And you need to be present for the press run. None of this online ordering with a pdf.

Alan Edward Klein · Mar 2, 2024

runswithsizzers said:
What "popular online printing service" was it that you tried?

Blurb prints magazines <https://www.blurb.com/magazine> but I have never had a magazine printed.

I have had several photo books printed by them, and I think their quality is pretty good. I did have one book that came back with an unpleasant blue tint to my b&w photos, but they reprinted that book for me, and the second attempt was fine. If you want to look at an example of a Blurb photo book, click here <https://www.blurb.com/b/11131448-selected-monochromes>, click on the book, zoom it up to full screen, and you can flip through the book.

Here is a list of Blurb's design tools <https://www.blurb.com/bookmaking-tools>. I have used both their desktop software (BookWright) and also the book module which is built into Adobe Lightroom. If you have the option to use Lightroom, I would recommend that -- unless your book has a lot of text that needs to flow from page-to-page, in which case use their clunky BookWright software. However, I am guessing you might be more interested in something like their "PDF to Book" option(?) -- which I have never used.

Good luck!

I found that my Blurb first book was too dark and had to lighten the pictures in a second run which they did for free.

How do you get the right settings??

Alan Edward Klein · Mar 2, 2024

Pieter12 said:
Just a note—MagCloud is a subsidiary of Blurb. Whatever service you choose make sure you use their profiles before you put the images in.

How does that work?

Peter Schrager · Mar 2, 2024

Contact Modern Postcard...I picked a lovely small brochure at AIPAD last year from the Stephen Daiter gallery and the quality is beyond excellent...you might not get the size you want but the quality is there!!

MurrayMinchin · Mar 2, 2024

Pieter12 said:
I found the comparison shot I send to MagCloud trying to get the job reprinted. They said it was within their tolerances. The top is the reprint, the bottom the original.

View attachment 364329

Nice diptych

Pieter12 · Mar 2, 2024

Alan Edward Klein said:
How does that work?

There should be instructions on how to do this on the on-demand publishing website. This may vary by supplier, but more or less you download the appropriate profile from the publisher, according to the paper and original (color or black and white) you intend the book to be printed. In Photoshop at least (I am less familiar with other image editing programs) you go to "Edit" and "Assign Profile" where you will be able to assign the profile supplied by the publisher.

MattKing · Mar 2, 2024

Pieter12 said:
There should be instructions on how to do this on the on-demand publishing website. This may vary by supplier, but more or less you download the appropriate profile from the publisher, according to the paper and original (color or black and white) you intend the book to be printed. In Photoshop at least (I am less familiar with other image editing programs) you go to "Edit" and "Assign Profile" where you will be able to assign the profile supplied by the publisher.

This is correct, and is similar to the requirements for accurate lab printing of many types of prints - colour or black and white, either RA4 or inkjet.
However, if there are more questions, the subject certainly deserves its own thread.

logan2z · Mar 2, 2024

Peter Schrager said:
Contact Modern Postcard...I picked a lovely small brochure at AIPAD last year from the Stephen Daiter gallery and the quality is beyond excellent...you might not get the size you want but the quality is there!!

Thanks for the suggestion. However, it looks like they require a minimum order of 250 of their 5x7 booklets which is more than I want/need. I'll call and see if they have any flexibility on order size.

MTGseattle · Mar 3, 2024

I spoke with a Blurb person and he suggested giving magcloud "digest" a chance. Inexpensive and good quality were the words he used.

Pieter12 · Mar 3, 2024

MTGseattle said:
I spoke with a Blurb person and he suggested giving magcloud "digest" a chance. Inexpensive and good quality were the words he used.

Was this in regard to black and white printing, or just their service in general?

jeffreyg · Mar 3, 2024

I have made seven handmade books including linen covers. You might consider printing yourself and if you’re not into binding you can find a book binder to finish them for you. Another approach to getting the grayscale you want would be to make the prints warm tone which works nicely on matte paper.
I printed on Hahnemuhle Duo It’s a beautiful but thick paper so having the page edges even is best done by a print shop that has the equipment to do that kind of a cut. I only made one copy of each book for myself.
It is work and each time I made one I said that’s the last one but a year or so later I made another one. I have enough paper left over so I’ll probably end up convincing myself to make one more.

Pieter12 · Mar 4, 2024

MurrayMinchin said:
Nice diptych

Sorry about the delay In responding. Thank you. it is appreciated.

logan2z · Mar 4, 2024

Peter Schrager said:
Contact Modern Postcard...I picked a lovely small brochure at AIPAD last year from the Stephen Daiter gallery and the quality is beyond excellent...you might not get the size you want but the quality is there!!

I spoke to them today, they seem great. They will do short run booklets using their digital press. Using their offset press requires a 250 booklet minimum. They're going to send me some sample booklets done on both presses along with detailed quotes. Based on our conversation, they will be quite a bit more expensive than places like Mixam and MacCloud so I may not use them this time around, but I may for future projects.

Suggestions for where to have a black and white photography zine printed

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Pieter12

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Pieter12

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albireo

Pieter12

Alan Edward Klein

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Peter Schrager

MurrayMinchin

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