Suggestions for an E-6, non blix, dev kit.

[Rudeofus]

Looks like you have never done detailed side-by-side tests. Also as you haven written that you have only used the 3-bath kits exclusively.

BLIX is not BLIX. There were many valid arguments against BLIX several years ago, and the all boiled down to "but Tetenal's BLIX is a good BLIX, it works". Tetenal uses a proper bleach accelerator, and they use Ammonium Ferric EDTA, not Sodium Ferric EDTA. They do many things right which some other makers didn't.

Note: all the known ingredients going into Tetenal's BLIX were known at the time when Ron still worked for Kodak and E-6 was still a thing (Mercaptotriazole was patented in the 60ies). At Kodak they did not test by "oh so shiny", they did proper X ray tests to check for retained silver. Apparently they were not satisfied by what their best affordable BLIX compositions at the time delivered.

 

[peter k.]

For the Tetenal kit I get 10 rolls per batch, 50 rolls per kit

So the Tetenal kit does not have to be fully mixed at the beginning, like the Hunt kit? You can mix it for amount needed, per batch, for the film that is going to be developed?
If this is true, does this allow a longer shelf life, for the remaining chemicals, as they are not fully mixed together yet?
thanks p.

 

[thuggins]

Looks like you have never done detailed side-by-side tests

You would be wrong. I have been shooting E6 for decades, and had it processed by numerous different labs over the years before starting to do it myself. I still send out 35mm on occasion if I want the slides to be mounted. I probably have close to 10,000 frames of professionally processed E6. I have done many "detailed side-by-side tests" and the results from the Tetenal are always as good or better than any pro lab.

I know of several large format photographers who have switched to the 6/7 bath Fuji kit because of the better stabiliser (smears with 3-bath kit).

I can't speak for the technique or care employed by others, but I have never seen any issues with the Tetenal stabilizer. It is hard to envision how this would manifest itself with LF and not MF or 35mm. Since the newly CLA'd shutter for my Graphic is on its way back as we speak, I will let you know what I see with 4x5.

I feel the need to point out that there is a whole lot of "doth protest too much" going on here in an attempt to trash the Tetenal kits. This thread started with the classic "someone said once that Blix was no good, so I choose to blindly believe one random comment rather than actually trying things for myself". It has now morphed to shelf life and streaky stabilizer. Well I heard that a guy from Tetenal once kicked a dog! So they suck! (it works best if you imagine a Kyle Broflovski voice)

BLIX is not BLIX. There were many valid arguments against BLIX several years ago, and the all boiled down to "but Tetenal's BLIX is a good BLIX, it works". Tetenal uses a proper bleach accelerator, and they use Ammonium Ferric EDTA, not Sodium Ferric EDTA. They do many things right which some other makers didn't.

+10000
This is really the key point. People talk about Blix as if it is some monolithic constant, like H2O. There can be many different formulations and some will perform and "work" differently from others. My experience is with Tetenal and very limited with Arista. The Tetenal and Arista Blixes are different formulations, but both are quite effective.

So the Tetenal kit does not have to be fully mixed at the beginning, like the Hunt kit? You can mix it for amount needed, per batch, for the film that is going to be developed?
If this is true, does this allow a longer shelf life, for the remaining chemicals, as they are not fully mixed together yet?
thanks p.

The Tetenal 2.5 liter three bath kit consists of 3 liters of concentrate and four baths. You gotta love marketing. Apparently, the stabilizer is not a bath, as the developing is complete at that point. Maybe the 2.5 liters comes from five batches of 500ml mix, but that is just a guess.

So you use 100ml of each of the concentrates for each batch. As noted, that is five batches. Ten rolls takes me from six weeks to two months to shoot, so that is how long each batch sits before it is dumped and a new one is mixed. Taking the worst case, four batches at two months per batch is eight months between when the kit is first opened and the fifth (last) batch is mixed. By aliquoting the concentrate into 100ml bottles when mixing the first batch, I have had no problems with shelf life. This also makes it very easy to mix the subsequent batches as everything is pre-measured.

 

[peter k.]

So you use 100ml of each of the concentrates for each batch. .. ect ..

So the whole kit is mixed in the beginning, and then the rest of it is stored in 100ml bottles for later use?

This thread started with the classic "someone said once that Blix was no good,

BTW: This thread was not started as another blix fight!
You have a misunderstanding, we have nothing against blix, nor does Henning. He mentioned that he has used it, and recommend it as a suggestion, but for his professional personnel use, uses non blix.

No matter what you use:
Colour reversal processing at home can offer you outstanding and perfect results even surpassing the quality of the best professional labs (e.g. if you are using a JOBO rotary processor).
It is very easy and cost efficient. And you have fun: Looking at your self-developed transparencies is wonderful and an experience you will never forget .

So its not about blix thank goodness...
The fact is we have used blix developers in the past and may again shortly, .. as the Hunt kit is very expensive, and is the only non blix E6 developer available at this time in the states. The reference to blix in this thread came about when we were checking out for a new developer for C-41. We investigated and like what we found in the thread: Giving Bvy's flexicolor C-41 chemical list a try.
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/giving-bvys-flexicolorc-41-chemical-list-a-try.138328/
Been very happy with it and wanted to see what else was available for E6 without blix.

Bottom line is the choice for me, ..from your suggestion and others, is between he Tetenal chemistry kit or Fugi Hunt kit.
Haven't decided yet, and have appreciated your input.

 

[twelvetone12]

So the whole kit is mixed in the beginning, and then the rest of it is stored in 100ml bottles for later use?

No. The kit comes with 6 500ml bottles. To mix 500ml of solution, you use 400ml water + 100ml FD, 300ml water + 100ml CD1 + 100ml CD2, and so on. I think what was suggested there was to move each of the 500ml concentrates into 5 100ml small bottles, so to prepare a total of 5 500ml batches.
When I used the Tetenal kit, I just left everything in the 500ml concentrate bottles, and worked for more than six months (I know, not ideal...)

 

[EIOO]

Did anyone have experience for Bellini's E6? Can have good result for it?
It's look not popular then Tetenal. After it change to New Tetenal, someone finding the other kit or chem. and also will talk about Bellini.
But it's not much Bellini results can be search.

 

[twelvetone12]

I have, see post #25

 

[EIOO]

Sound great for it. You processed in 8 rolls, is it good result both for Kodak and Fuji films?

 

[BMbikerider]

It must be 10 or 15 years (or longer) since I have processed any E6 (In the days when 35mm Film cost £3 a cassette.) I cannot remember what the blix was, combined or separate. As far as I remember the bleach and fix came in two separate bottles, would it not be possible to mix them separately and bleach first then fix afterwards? This is the way it is done with the Tetenal C41 negative kits.

 

[twelvetone12]

I used it will provia, velvia, ektachtome, agfa 200 and the old Ferrania 100 crome. I had very good results with the first three and also with the expired films it performerd quite well (the agfa had a yellow cast which was much less pronounced than with the tetenal kit). Timigs and steps are AFAIK the same as a "regular" professional e6. My only problem with it is that it is not easy to get.

 

[Rudeofus]

As far as I remember the bleach and fix came in two separate bottles, would it not be possible to mix them separately and bleach first then fix afterwards? This is the way it is done with the Tetenal C41 negative kits.

I don't think this would work. A good bleach consists of an oxidizer and a compound providing a counter anion, and the oxidizer part of your BLIX kit does not provide that counter anion. You will get incomplete bleaching and brown slides.

It would not work for C-41 either, except that the retained silver is not as obvious with the orange mask. The problems associated with retained silver (non-uniform formation of silver sulfide) would still remain.

 

[BMbikerider]

I don't think this would work. A good bleach consists of an oxidizer and a compound providing a counter anion, and the oxidizer part of your BLIX kit does not provide that counter anion. You will get incomplete bleaching and brown slides.

It would not work for C-41 either, except that the retained silver is not as obvious with the orange mask. The problems associated with retained silver (non-uniform formation of silver sulfide) would still remain.

It was just an idea that crossed my mind. I had no idea of the chemical make up and supposed that if it were OK for C41 and RA4 it may work with E6

 

[Adrian Bacon]

In the 'States there is the Fuji Hunt kit available from Freestyle. It's very difficult to buy chems the way you would with Flexicolor Kodak says they're making E6 chemicals again soon, but so far nothing. I'm hoping they make something that reflects the reality for labs that use rotary processors. A dip and dunk line would not be sustainable with our current E6 volume.

same here... I don’t get enough E-6 through the door to make E-6 viable for anything but rotary processing. The Fuji hunt kit is nice, but very expensive. I’ve been using the arista kits from freestyle, and mix up just what I need when I need it and have had good success going that route. I think the key with the liquid kits is not to mix up the whole thing at once, but instead to only mix up what you need, which is easy enough if you keep the ratios correct.

 

[peter k.]

I don’t get enough E-6 through the door to make E-6 viable for anything but rotary processing.

Don't understand.. but then we do not have a rotary. But if the volume is less, its easier to use rotary as it takes only one roll of film? Vrs developing several rolls at same time by hand?

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Don't understand.. but then we do not have a rotary. But if the volume is less, its easier to use rotary as it takes only one roll of film? Vrs developing several rolls at same time by hand?

with my JOBO rotary processor, I can process one roll, two rolls, or larger multi-roll batches at a time. Often times, a processing order will come in that has multiple C-41 rolls, a few BW rolls, and 1 roll of E-6. On average, out of every 20-30 rolls of C-41/BW, maybe one is E-6. Clients expect reasonably fast turn around, so I can’t just sit on those rolls hoping more show up to make running a larger batch feasible so I often wait to run the E-6 until last, and then just run whatever is there. Sometimes it’s a bunch of rolls, sometimes it’s one.

 

[peter k.]

Got it... so even doing for clients, your confident enough to mix an E-6 solution for just the amount of rolls you need. .. Hats off to ya.. having done relatively little color, and no E-6 developing, my confidence level would be zero.
So another question why The Arista kit from Freestyle over the Tetenal chemistry kit? (BTW they are my main supplier)

 

[mshchem]

Current kit for me is the Fuji 5 L kit from Freestyle. All 7 solutions, this is the EU version, has REACH compliance, pre-bleach and different final rinse than what is used in US labs.

I've used the Tetenal blix kits with very good results, just don't overuse.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Got it... so even doing for clients, your confident enough to mix an E-6 solution for just the amount of rolls you need. .. Hats off to ya.. having done relatively little color, and no E-6 developing, my confidence level would be zero.
So another question why The Arista kit from Freestyle over the Tetenal chemistry kit? (BTW they are my main supplier)

the arista kit is less expensive. I mix just enough to meet the minimum for the tube and use it one shot. The directions that come with it are pretty clear. It’s just as easy to use if not easier than Kodak’s flexicolor chems.

 

[pipitra]

I live in Taiwan and since Tetenal E6 kit was listed as dangerous good I couldn't get it from Germany anymore.I found a no brand E6 kit from China which is 1.2L for 12 rolls 135/120 costs only $18.I've tested with my remaining Tetenal the result seems to be ok other than the reversal is oxidized easily so I ruined one roll of expired film.Still I don't have much confidence on this kit although it's cheap.Hope Tetenal can introduce E6 tablets in the near future or to hear good news from Kodak soon.

 

[Rudeofus]

It was just an idea that crossed my mind. I had no idea of the chemical make up and supposed that if it were OK for C41 and RA4 it may work with E6

Where did you get this from? There is absolutely no indication, that this procedure would work for any color process (C-41, RA-4, E-6, ...)? If you mix a bleach only from the oxidizer part of your BLIX kit, I guarantee you, that bleaching will be incomplete.

 

[BMbikerider]

Read the original post the answer to what you ask is there.

My C41 developer kit, currently from Tetenal has a separate Bleach and Fixing bath, they are not combined. Then after the was a stabiliser.

 

[peter k.]

More confusion?
As per Freestyle: https://www.freestylephoto.biz/102036-Tetenal-Colortec-E-6-Developing-Kit-2.5-Liters

Tetenal Colortec E-6 Developing Kit is an advanced 3 bath formula plus stabilizer for processing of all standard E-6 reversal films in tanks and rotary processors. It is one shot processing in tanks and drums. With the 3-bath technology the number of processing baths is reduced to three plus stabilizing bath. The film reversal takes place during the color development. Bleaching and fixing are in a combined bleach fixer

Do you some how have a different kit?
EDIT: Oh my, just realized your talking about your C-41 kit... not the E-6 kit.. Haha..ah ha.. were embarrassed!!!

 

[Rudeofus]

Read the original post the answer to what you ask is there.

My C41 developer kit, currently from Tetenal has a separate Bleach and Fixing bath, they are not combined. Then after the was a stabiliser.

Which C-41 kit from Tetenal aimed at amateurs would this be? There are two kits currently offered at Freestyle, and both the 1 liter kit, and the 2.5 liter kit are clearly presented as BLIX kits.

Tetenal does make minilab chemistry, and these kits typically use separate bleach and fixers, did you mean these ?

 

[BMbikerider]

These were from the instructions that came with a 5 ltr kit which is no longer available and I have about half a litre of Dev left..

However...…..

I have just bought a 2,5 ltr kit to replace the 5 ltr kit and have opened the new box to find the instructions are totally different to the old kit. Yes indeed the bleach and fix is now just a blix. Just as well you pulled me up, because I would have gone ahead and mixed it as a separate solutions, only to find they may not have worked as well...….. Ah well that will give me more space in the Jobo processor for rinse water.

I do have the remnants of a Fuji Hunt 5 litre kit which I didn't finish because the developer 'went off,' and that is most definitely separate bleach and fix.

I have read the new design of instruction booklet and find that they give alternative development times for 30C and 45C. this is not in the old instructions, plus a guide for push processing. It also recommends a stop bath to extend the use of the Blix and increase processing reliability. Not seen that before either.

 

[Rudeofus]

I am still puzzled, what kind of kit you could have had. I have used my first Tetenal kit about 12 years ago, and never ever did I run into a small Tetenal kit with separate bleach and fixer. I did find the MSDS for Tetenal's C-41 5l kit, and it's without doubt a BLIX kit. About 9 years ago I had a problem with their BLIX part 2 concentrate, and the discussion started by my report mentioned no option to mix separate bleach and fixer with the kit components.

Would you care posting the instructions, which state, that you can mix separate bleach and fixer from Tetenal's kit components?