Suggestions for an E-6, non blix, dev kit.

[peter k.]

Spring is coming and getting back into shooting color film again, and want to try to develop E-6. What are your suggestions for a non blix developing kit.
Thanks p.

 

[gdavis]

It's been years since I've done E-6 but it seems all the color "kits" these days have blix. I think they want to make everything as simple as possible to be less scary to newbies.

I'm curious why you're looking for such a thing if you don't mind sharing.

 

[peter k.]

I'm curious why you're looking for such a thing if you don't mind sharing.

Well will give ya our short photo autobiography.
When we first got back into film photography, after my neighbor said, "Hey sell your dads old Nikon, and get a digital camera and will go shooting." Ha... So got out all his old stuff. Hmmm lenses, filters, light meter, and a bunch of other stuff. Hmmm, all we need is some film.
Started right off shooting slide film, then got caught up in color C-41 and then C-41 B&W. That sucked me into real B&W and learned how to develop it. Then, as the market changed and our local Walgreens was no longer going to develop film, .. got captured into developing color C-41. At first with kits, and then with Flexicolor. Wow what a difference, liked the non blix the best...

Sooo, bottom line. we have some 35mm and 120 slide film stored in the freezer, stored since ... what 2014, .. crying out loud, "WHY NOT ME?" ,, when we go to get some film out of there. Recently we changed our color development setup, giving us the availability to develop B&W and color in our small camper space. Before it was one or the other. The camper works out as a wonderful temporary space to develop in,as we have no room for a even a temp darkroom in our small house. The camper set up stays there until we decided to go off on camping trip AKA photo shoot, and is easily packed and stored in garage.

So bottom line is we want to do more color,... and investigating color c-41 found we like the non blix set up the best. but one kit we know of, the Fugi Hunt E-6 kit makes five litters of developer, and wondered if there were any smaller kits available without blix.
But it appears, very few people are even shooting E-6, let alone developing it, as yours was the first reply.

 

[gdavis]

So you actually saw a difference between blix and separate bleach/fix? That's not what I want to hear I've only used blix kits and have been happy, my ignorance is my bliss. I can't help wondering though if the difference was due to blix approach or simply a matter of different brands. Anyway, as our choices dwindle, I'm just grateful for what we do have. I'm still mourning the loss of FP100C.

I asked because I'm pondering trying bleach bypass. I'm hoping plain fix will work instead of the blix.

Seems like a lot of film photographers like E-6 not only because it looks great but is easier to scan, yet they're afraid of developing themselves. I haven't been doing E-6 because when I shoot film I prefer to print it in the darkroom rather than scan it. Sounds like you've got a nice setup with the camper.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Bellini make a 1l E6 kit with a separate bleach.

 

[peter k.]

So you actually saw a difference between blix and separate bleach/fix?

Oh my goodness, back five six years there was a great blix vrs bleach and fix discussion. Can't remember all the details, but allot of the info you can find on the first two Sticky's on the Color: Film, Paper and Chemistry forum. We went the Flexicolor route.

Bellini make a 1l E6 kit with a separate bleach.

Thanks Anon will look into that:

Edit : Dang from Italy, and available in Europe, but no shipping to US due to regulations.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

In the 'States there is the Fuji Hunt kit available from Freestyle. It's very difficult to buy chems the way you would with Flexicolor Kodak says they're making E6 chemicals again soon, but so far nothing. I'm hoping they make something that reflects the reality for labs that use rotary processors. A dip and dunk line would not be sustainable with our current E6 volume.

 

[Martin Rickards]

Bellini make a 1l E6 kit with a separate bleach.

Bellini distribution is very irregular; here in Spain, for example, there is a distributor that is only interested in the professional market and doesn't/won't supply the amateur pack sizes.

 

[Rudeofus]

If you are not completely opposed to some self mixing, you could get an 1l BLIX kit and convert the BLIX part to separate bleach and fixer.

 

[destroya]

fuji is the only game in the US at this time. I get great results using it and replenishing. wont go back to BLIX

 

[thuggins]

I asked because I'm pondering trying bleach bypass. I'm hoping plain fix will work instead of the blix.

You cannot skip the bleach with E6. After the Color Developer has completed, all of the silver halide has been reduced to elemental silver. There is nothing for the fix to dissolve. The film will be opaque black, like a fogged B&W negative. The bleach oxidizes the silver back to a halide compound so that the fix can dissolve it out.

Oh my goodness, back five six years there was a great blix vrs bleach and fix discussion.

This crap about Blix being substandard or deficient is total nonsense. I have developed thousands of frames of all brands of slide films in both Tetenal and Arista chemistry over a number of years. In every case the results are as good as any professional lab. The reason the two steps are separate in commercial labs is to allow the chemicals to be replenished at different times. If you feel the need to overly complicate things and waste your time with non value added steps, knock yourself out. But please stop posting incorrect information on topics which you know nothing about.

 

[peoplemerge]

I also have been using the Tetenal chemistry, which is a blix. I have nothing to complain about. I would switch to the fuji hunt, but for the cost of that kit.

I also heard a rumor that Kodak will go back to producing E6 chemistry. I'll switch when they do. I've tried to email them to confirm / beta test, but they didn't get back to me.

 

[Henning Serger]

Spring is coming and getting back into shooting color film again, and want to try to develop E-6. What are your suggestions for a non blix developing kit.
Thanks p.

I am using both the Tetenal E6 3-bath kit (mostly in my transparency film workshops), and the original Fuji Hunt 6/7 bath kit (for all my own personal work).
Both can be highly recommended.
With the Tetenal I get excellent results, with the Fuji even a bit better = perfect results.
The Tetenal is faster, the Fuji results I get are a little bit more brillant. And the Fuji is more error-tolerant, furthermore the Fuji final stabilising bath is better (never had any problems with it; the Tetenal can produce sometimes streaks/smears, especially with larger film formats).

No matter what you use:
Colour reversal processing at home can offer you outstanding and perfect results even surpassing the quality of the best professional labs (e.g. if you are using a JOBO rotary processor).
It is very easy and cost efficient. And you have fun: Looking at your self-developed transparencies is wonderful and an experience you will never forget .

Best regards,
Henning

 

[PittP]

...Colour reversal processing at home can offer you outstanding and perfect results even surpassing the quality of the best professional labs (e.g. if you are using a JOBO rotary processor). It is very easy and cost efficient. And you have fun: Looking at your self-developed transparencies is wonderful and an experience you will never forget .

In deed! Projected slides are phantasic - and medium format slides projected on a white wall covering the entire room: It'll absorb you in the picture!
Provided all went well...
I have not used but the Tetenal kit. Being FRESH, results are to my full satisfaction - better (brighter colours, less contrasty) than from the standard labs in Germany. Hard to imagine that the Fuji kit gives even bettter results.
I'm a rather low-volume user (avg. 1 slide film a month, sometimes 3-4). And I have to bring in chemistry from Europe when I travel (consider CO2-footprint: Once a year is enough).
The catch 1 here is fresh.
Blix part 2 can develop sulfur precipitate within 1 month after purchase, latest within 4 months. The sulfur particles will stick to the film... Rudeofus' recipy (link above) was the way out and allowed me to continue with slide film, in my case though with a slight compromise in quality (which my be also linked to other factors I don't percive. I'm not a chemist.)
From this experience, the idea of a Blix is a total desaster. And the OP's request is more than justified.
First developer forms crystals shortly after, ever growing, changing activity...
Thus I find myself more often than not in a situation with poorly defined and substandard development conditions, most films result in acceptable (but not excellent) slides, some can be badly off.
(And yes, testing for each film would help ... it would require to spend 1/2+ of the expensive slide film and respective chemistry for each small batchI That all becomes really tedious and expensive.)
In the end, I always have to discard a substantial portion of the expensive chemicals, Bx-2 nearly 100%. It's my issue since a long time...
Thus my question:
How does the Fuji kit work for low volume users? Can it be kept for longer without the chemistry going off?
(BTW, the "new" ridiculously expensive Mini-Kits by Tetenal are not a solution.)
Thanks for your advice!
Best regards,
Pitt

 

[Tom Kershaw]

With the Tetenal I get excellent results, with the Fuji even a bit better = perfect results.

How many rolls are you processing per 5L Fuji kit in the Jobo? In the past with Kodak and Agfa I've done 5 rolls per litre one-shot, thereby processing 25 rolls of '120' or 135/36 equivalent per kit. Some have advocated re-use of the solutions for a 2nd run with longer times, but this would make me nervous without replenishment. I have much more experience with C-41 and run the developer one-shot, replenish the bleach and fix, but I'm not using a kit in this instance (for C-41).

 

[Henning Serger]

Hello Pit,

In deed! Projected slides are phantasic - and medium format slides projected on a white wall covering the entire room: It'll absorb you in the picture!

Yes!
Slide projection offers by far the best picture quality for big enlargements:
- unsurpassed colour brillance
- a kind of "three-dimensional effect" which neither prints nor digital projections can offer (digital projection looks very flat)
- unsurpassed resolution; with excellent projection lenses you can almost completely use the full film resolution and have much, much more resolution compared to digital projection (where your resolution is limited by tiny 2MP (2k) or 8 MP (4k) )
- extremely low, negligible costs (after the initial purchase of a slide projector - and even the best models are very cheap on the used market - you get your huge brillant picture for free).

Thus my question:
How does the Fuji kit work for low volume users? Can it be kept for longer without the chemistry going off?
Thanks for your advice!
Best regards,
Pitt

Yes, the keeping properties of the Fuji Hunt E6 kit are very good and better compared to the Tetenal 3bath kit.
If you - after opening the original bottles and developing your first batch of films - then fill the concentrates in dark glass bottles (either full, or using a protective gas like Tetenal Protectan) you will have a shelf life of about 9 - 12 months.
For this purpose I have a set of different volume dark glass bottles (50ml, 100ml, 250ml, 500ml, 1000ml) which makes it possible to often store the concentrates in complete full bottles. Or at least in almost full bottles with only a small left-over volume which is filled with protective gas Protectan.
Dark storage, and temperatures below 20°C and above 10°C also have a positive effect on the shelf life.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

Hello Tom,

How many rolls are you processing per 5L Fuji kit in the Jobo? In the past with Kodak and Agfa I've done 5 rolls per litre one-shot, thereby processing 25 rolls of '120' or 135/36 equivalent per kit.

If you are using it according to the Fuji Hunt datasheet, you get 44 rolls from the kit.
With one-shot about 40 rolls.
In general Fuji is more on the conservative / safe side with their data. To guarantee you always absolutely perfect results.
It would not surprise me if you could get even a bit more films processed with this kit.
I have never tried. The Fuji Hunt E6 kit is quite cheap here, and I am a bit of a perfectionist with my transparencies......

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Tom Kershaw]

The Fuji Hunt E6 kit is quite cheap here, and I am a bit of a perfectionist with my transparencies......

Best regards,
Henning

Hi Henning,

Well considering the effort spent on photography and the cost of the film, being a perfectionist in terms of the E6 processing is probably not a bad idea...

Tom

 

[Henning Serger]

Hi Henning,
Well considering the effort spent on photography and the cost of the film, being a perfectionist in terms of the E6 processing is probably not a bad idea...
Tom

Tom, no matter if I am doing E6, C41, BW negative, BW reversal, I always have a focus on the best possible quality.
And as already explained some days ago:
My costs for E6 are lower compared to my costs of using CN prof. film (C41). Because with E6 I always have a perfect result just after processing. With C41 I need another step: Prints or / and scans. And that do costs if you go for quality (as I do).
A perfect 1m x 1,5m huge picture in slide projection costs me next to nothing. A print of that size for the wall costs me more than 100 €.

And in the end the film / process / print costs are in most cases the smallest part of the overall photography costs:
If I travel to a destination for photography, I have all the travel costs.
If I hire a model, I have the model costs.
If I build a special set-up in my studio, I have the material / building costs.
And so on......
All these costs are in most cases for me much higher than film / processing etc. costs.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Tom Kershaw]

The German market seems well served in product availability terms as well. Many UK dealers don't carry everything one might want and you have to shop around.

Tom

 

[Henning Serger]

The German market seems well served in product availability terms as well. Many UK dealers don't carry everything one might want and you have to shop around.

Tom

If you cannot get what you need in the UK, just use the German distributors. They all ship to the UK.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[thuggins]

How many rolls are you processing per 5L Fuji kit in the Jobo?

For the Tetenal kit I get 10 rolls per batch, 50 rolls per kit. I have gotten 12 rolls out of one batch, but considering how cheap it is (less than $2/roll) it wasn't worth the time for the two extra rolls. Tetenal recommends 6 rolls per batch, 30 rolls per kit.

I am using both the Tetenal E6 3-bath kit (mostly in my transparency film workshops), and the original Fuji Hunt 6/7 bath kit (for all my own personal work).
Both can be highly recommended.
With the Tetenal I get excellent results, with the Fuji even a bit better = perfect results.
The Tetenal is faster, the Fuji results I get are a little bit more brillant.

This doesn't even pass the sniff test. The slides being "brillant" (sic) would be controlled by the color developer and not remotely related to the bleach or fix. Are you proposing that Fuji has some magical color developer that produces different dyes from the same couplers, and no one else has ever figured out how to do this? It is far more probable that since you spend more time and more money on the Fuji kit, you have convinced yourself that the results are better to justify it.

Blix part 2 can develop sulfur precipitate within 1 month after purchase, latest within 4 months. The sulfur particles will stick to the film...

Per Tetenal, BX2 is sodium hydrogen sulfite (sodium bisulfite). If exposed to air long enough, some of the sulfur will oxidize and precipitate out. I had this happen to the last batch of my first kit (opened about six months, certainly not one month). Contrary to the wisdom of the resident geniuses here, it still mixed up and worked just fine. After that I bought a bunch of 100ml bottles and aliquot the concentrates when mixing the first batch. No air, no oxygen, no precipitate, no problem. This also eliminates the problem with the first developer.

From this experience, the idea of a Blix is a total desaster. And the OP's request is more than justified.

This problem has nothing to do with Blix. I have had the same issue with plain ol' B&W Fix. If the chemicals are not exposed to air, there is no problem. Besides, the typical brickbats hurled at Blix have nothing to do with shelf life. The claim is that they leave "something" behind. A quick glance at the developed film proves this wrong.

 

[Henning Serger]

This doesn't even pass the sniff test.

Looks like you have never done detailed side-by-side tests. Also as you haven written that you have only used the 3-bath kits exclusively.
I have done these side-by-side comparisons. Friends of mine being prof. photographers, too.
And we've got the same results. As I have written above: The difference is very small, but visible in direct comparisons. Whether that matters to you is just an individual decision. And as someone who is working in this industry, and knows some raw chemical sources and industry supplying chains, I can ensure you that differences can occur because of these factors alone.
I know of several large format photographers who have switched to the 6/7 bath Fuji kit because of the better stabiliser (smears with 3-bath kit). And the 6/7 bath kit is definitely more error-tolerant and has better shelf life.
Again, it is an individual thing whether that matters to you. I am using both kits, for different purposes.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[peter k.]

Thank you all for your responses but have a question for:

I am using both the Tetenal E6 3-bath kit (mostly in my transparency film workshops), and the original Fuji Hunt 6/7 bath kit (for all my own personal work).

Most likely for your film workshops, your using roll film, and the much simpler developing process, with the Tetenel E6 for these classes. But, .. for your own personal work, when you use the Fugi Hunt kit, is it for roll or sheet film? Or maybe both?

Reason we ask is we generally the last few years have only shot B&W sheet film, and only use C-41 roll film in the spring.
(Hmmm... oh this is funny, .. just realizing it would seem silly to shoot c-41 color and slide film, and need to have two different developers on hand for a casual old 'art, .. fun photographer.)

 

[twelvetone12]

For what is worth I used the Bellini 1L kit with very good results. I got 12 films out of it: 8 is the maximum stated capacity and the additional 4 were expired experimental stuff I had. All came out great, except for a very old roll of velvia.
It is somewhat difficult to source, and I get mine directly in Italy. Sice my jobo has been dead for a couple years, I develop in a big bucket of water constantly checking the temperatures in the jobo tanks. voIf mylumes were higher I would invest in the Fuji kit.