Suggested replacement for Kodak E6 kit

[HelenOster]

Adorama will ship and has some but not all the chemicals and sometimes will stock part A of a solution but no part B or C if needed.
Major PITA.

Thank you for alerting me to this; I do apologize for the inconvenience; I'm checking with the head buyer as to why this is happening.

 

[kb3lms]

It really is a disaster trying to figure out what to buy for E6 processing and Kodak isn't exactly helpful. Many places sell some of the chemicals but not others - for example, first developer but not color developer or no bleach. One thing that would really be great is for Adorama, Calumet, or B&H (etc.) provide a list on their website of all the Kodak (or whoever's - doesn't matter) chemicals necessary to process E-6, C-41, and RA-4 with links to the product on their site. (The same could be done for B/W products, too.) If the smallest we can get is 10L size than so be it - it would just be nice to know what to buy and one place where you could get all of it so you don't have to pay shipping from 3 different places.

There is a lot of film camera activity on eBay right now - Pentax anyway. My daughter wants a new film camera and the days of the $10 SLR seem to be over - or at least not this week! Prices aren't sky-high but they are not as low as they were, either.

 

[HelenOster]

An update; according to our purchasing department, the three chemicals, A, B & C are always ordered in from the supplier all together, so we can't see any reason why we'd be running out of one before another. :confused:

 

[brucemuir]

Doesn't make sense does it Helen...

my guess is the same partial availability situation exists at a few other suppliers (I've noticed this at Calumet) so people grab A from here and B&C from there or wherever it can be found.

I almost had to do that once but I would've had to pay shipping from several parts of the Country (mucho dinero) and I am so close to NYC I considered driving up there from DC just to do a Color Chemical run

I do really appreciate you looking into this and I know I'm not the only one.

 

[HelenOster]

Doesn't make sense does it Helen...

Forgive me for not being so familiar with the products or how they are used.........we really need to be stocking this?

Single-Use Chemistry Kit, Process E-6, http://www.kodak.com/global/en/prof...e6Kit/e6Index.jhtml?pq-path=13318/13629/13815

Or maybe we need to drop ship it if possible?

I can't promise anything til I speak to the purchasing department, but I would have thought there must be something we can do to make this all a bit less of problematic for you all.

 

[brucemuir]

Helen, the
"Kodak Single Use E6 Kit 5L" that you linked has been discontinued just recently and this thread is basically discussing a replacement for that smaller 5L kit. That "KIT" has everything in a smallish box that you need for processing E6/slides.

Now Kodak has NOT discontinued larger (10L) sizes of each individual chemical needed but this is costly and most here don't have the throughput of film to warrant purchasing that much chemistry all at once. Hence, why this thread is bemoaning the demise of the smaller kits.

In my post that you quoted above, I was alluding that although Adorama WILL ship (yeah!, we thank you for that), they often are out of one of the components needed of the larger 10L sizes.

To make things worse, some of the E6 chemicals come is 2 or 3 parts plus a starter and it is getting hard to find one place that has everything.

If you want to discuss this in detail you can PM me.

Thanks for your continuing efforts as always,
Bruce

 

[michaelbsc]

Forgive me for not being so familiar with the products or how they are used.........we really need to be stocking this?

Single-Use Chemistry Kit, Process E-6, http://www.kodak.com/global/en/prof...e6Kit/e6Index.jhtml?pq-path=13318/13629/13815

Or maybe we need to drop ship it if possible?

Helen,

I can almost promise you that if you'll tie together all the pieces from the confusing Kodak mess into a "Kit" despite the fact that it's now become a dozen different Kodak part numbers you'll sell them. (EDIT: And ship them, too. I've been able to find the 5L kits in places, but it's hardly easy for me to drive 800 miles one way to pick one up.)

Trying to figure out just what the evil to buy for E-6, C-41, and RA-4 has driven me - and others - bonkers for a while. The Rollei 1L kit mentioned elsewhere is too small for use as one-shot in a home rotary processor. 10L is a little much, but more than enough is better than not enough.

The problem with the 10L chems is that they're scattered all of the place. I can't "buy" one 10L package, and in the past getting anyone to ship the color chems has been difficult because of the Hazmat issue.

EDIT: So, in the end, if there was a single Adorama P/N that had all the bottles of everything one needs (and I cannot answer what this means, a whole bunch of Kodak P/Ns) and it could be shipped despite the fact that there's a Hazmat fee, I'd buy it. Same for a C-41 kit and for an RA-4 kit. I think Kodak - as well as the major resellers - tremendously underestimates the pent-up energy for home color. It might have been very difficult to someone in 1962 to control the process, but it's not difficult now.

Now, having said this, realize that people will start with the "kit" and reorder individual chems. The bleach lasts a long time, and is easy to recover and rejuvenate. And it's expensive. So people will order bottles of the others to extend the life of their chems.

 

[HelenOster]

I've passed all the feedback to our purchasing department manager; I'll keep you updated as and when I get any info.

 

[wblynch]

Thanks Helen !!

(have credit card at the ready)

 

[frobozz]

So, in the end, if there was a single Adorama P/N that had all the bottles of everything one needs (and I cannot answer what this means, a whole bunch of Kodak P/Ns) and it could be shipped despite the fact that there's a Hazmat fee, I'd buy it.

I actually tried to figure this out the other day, and it's nearly impossible! Kodak's website just tells you to check with your local retailer, since packaging and such varies by region, but then all the local retailers each only carry bits and pieces of what's needed. I did finally track down a Kodak publication that seems to give the most complete description of what is needed, including the usually-obscure instructions for how to deal with starters and replenishers. (Sadly, this now-out-of-date pub states that for what we do, the 5L kit is ideal. Sigh.)

Kodak Professional Chemicals, Process E6 (pub J-83, November 2005)

For the historical record, in case that link becomes dead someday:

For Replenished Small- and Medium-Volume
Processing
These sizes are appropriate for large sink lines or rotary
tubes, minilabs, and low-volume automatic processors. To
prepare first developer, color developer, and bleach working
solutions, add the appropriate starter according to the mixing
instructions on the package.

To Make 10 Litres

CAT No. Description

831 3611 KODAK PROFESSIONAL First
Developer Replenisher, Process E-6

167 1577 KODAK PROFESSIONAL First
Developer Starter, Process E-6
To make 26 gal

112 3611 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Reversal
Bath and Replenisher, Process E-6

182 7872 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Color
Developer Replenisher, Process E-6

185 8158 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Color
Developer Starter II, Process E-6
To make 25 gal (1-pt concentrate)

128 6228 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Pre-Bleach
and Replenisher, Process E-6

819 2395 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Bleach
Replenisher, Process E-6
(two 5-litre bottles)

177 9792 KODAKPROFESSIONAL Bleach
Starter, Process E-6
To make 25 gal (1/2-gal concentrate)

154 5466 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Fixer and
Replenisher, Process E-6

814 0279 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Final Rinse
and Replenisher, Process E-6

To Make 5 Gallons

CAT No. Description

100 7608 KODAK PROFESSIONAL First
Developer Replenisher, Process E-6

167 1577 KODAK PROFESSIONAL First
Developer Starter, Process E-6
To make 26 gal

113 1580 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Reversal
Bath and Replenisher, Process E-6

837 2542 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Color
Developer Replenisher, Process E-6

185 8158 KODAK Color Developer Starter II,
Process E-6
To make 25 gal (1-pt concentrate)

802 6569 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Pre-Bleach
and Replenisher, Process E-6

196 5623 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Bleach
Replenisher, Process E-6AR

177 9792 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Bleach
Starter, Process E-6
To make 25 gal (1/2-gal concentrate)

127 8019 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Fixer and
Replenisher, Process E-6

890 9590 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Final Rinse
and Replenisher, Process E-6

125 3566 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Defoamer,
Process E-6
(4-oz bottle)*

* Use with first and color developers in machines with nitrogen agitation.

They do also mention using the individual chemicals in the 1 gallon size. The whole point of the 5L kit was to not have to do that, so now that the 5L kit is gone maybe the 1 gallon part numbers are gone too, but here they are according to that pub, in case they are still out there:

For Non-Replenished Small-Volume
Processing
This five-litre kit is for use with small-volume tanks,
unreplenished sink lines, and rotary-tube processors.
Processing Kit - To Make 5 Litres

CAT No. Description

Now Use 107 7643 KODAK PROFESSIONAL
Single-Use Chemistry Kit, Process
E-6, to make 5 litres

Replaces 156 4632 KODAK PROFESSIONAL First
Developer, Process E-6, to make
1 gallon

Replaces 156 6850 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Reversal
Bath, Process E-6, to make 1 gallon

Replaces 116 2510 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Color
Developer, Process E-6, to make
1 gallon

Replaces 164 6058 KODAK PROFESSIONAL
Pre-Bleach, Process E-6, to make
1 gallon

Replaces 156 2461 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Bleach,
Process E-6, to make 1 gallon

Replaces 156 6082 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Fixer,
Process E-6, to make 1 gallon

Replaces 195 1128 KODAK PROFESSIONAL Final
Rinse, Process E-6, to make 1 gallon

Accessory

CAT No. Description

867 3220 KODAK Storage Bottles,
5 litre (case of 8)

Duncan

 

[brucemuir]

woah Duncan,
thanks for that painstaking compilation.

 

[amuderick]

This situation is miserable. I just bought a Tetenal 6 bath E-6 kit from a local photo store because no one had the Kodak kit in stock. It worked great but I can find no mention of it on the net. Tetenal product # 109342

 

[AgX]

Only the 3-bath kits are to be found at Tetenal. (maybe a website error though)

 

[michaelbsc]

Quite honestly if a reseller still won't ship this then the whole thead is useless.

I must have driven through NYC 30 times in the past 5 years, but always on a Saturday.

The advice to manufacturers is if the resellers won't ship it, we cannot buy it.

There's demand out there, and I would have been willing to pay an extra charge. As I said earlier hundreds of miles one way would have cost me far more in gasoline than a $50 surcharge.

 

[bwfans]

From Digital Truth website there are Kodak E-6 chemicals available in larger quantity. With $550 we can buy 8x5L (40L) E-6 chemicals by following calculations. Please let me know if this looks right.

Kodak Process E-6 Chemicals

E6 First Dev: 8313611 First Dev Repl, Process E-6, to make 10L (case of 4) $79.99 (40L)
E6 Reversal Bath: 1123611 Reversal Bath Repl, Process E-6, to make 10L (case of 12) $89.99 (120L)
E6 Color Dev: 8372542 Color Dev Repl, Process E-6, to make 5 gal (2 Cases) $79.98 (40L)
E6 Bleach: 1038660 Pre-Bleach and Repl, Process E-6AR, to make 50 gal $99.99 (200L)
E6 Fixer: 1545466 Fixer Repl, Process E-6, to make 10L (case of 6) $59.99 (60L)
E6 Final Rinse: 8140279 Final Rinse Repl, Process E-6, to make 10L (case of 12) $46.99 (120L)

Subtotal: $456.93
Shipping cost: $100.64
Total: $557.57

For $557 we have 40L for two developers. Enough to make 8x5L E-6 kits. The rest 6 chemicals are 120L, 200L, 60L, and 120L. Took out 40L from each we have 80L, 160L, 20L, and 80L left and worth $190. So 8x5L kit costs $367.
Each 5L kit costs about $46.

In this case, the discontinue of Kodak 5L E-6 Kit causes inconvenience but it is not impossible to use Kodak E-6 chemicals, unless I am wrong somewhere.

 

[frobozz]

I believe you also need to involve some starters for the 2 developers and bleach, at least according to their publication. Not sure exactly what effect it would have to just run with replenishers only from the start.

Duncan

 

[michaelbsc]

I believe you also need to involve some starters for the 2 developers and bleach, at least according to their publication. Not sure exactly what effect it would have to just run with replenishers only from the start.

Duncan

Therein is the problem. Nobody knows. And you can't find out.

 

[DKT]

i'm no e6 expert, but i did run it a lot in wing lynch machines. seems like if you mix up without the starters, process control might be problematic. not sure what all it would cause exactly, but i think the first developer would run hot and probably mess up the speed for one thing. also, as the stock solutions age in the larger sizes since you're mixing up one-shot, seems like if that stock oxidizes and loses activity, that the overall process control would be harder to deal with over time, since the chemistry wouldn't match up to any of the kodak spec's. it might not matter to some people--we always ran control strips with our E6 and attempted to get it as close to the aim points as possible for one-shot. it wasn't the same thing as the replenished chemistry because the control measures were so limited.

if i remember right from when kodak reformulated over to pre-bleach and final rinse (from conditioner and stabilizer)-the 1 gallon kits at that time changed to the newer 5 liter ones. the differences between the kits and the larger sizes, besides the replenishers and starters, was that the 5 liter kit no longer needed to have the reversal bath diluted to 60% and had some pH tweaking in the color dev doing away with having to add sodium hydroxide. that was the big selling point besides the smaller size.

 

[bwfans]

Correction: I missed including the cost of three starter chemicals, and the bleach which is the most expensive part of E-6 chemicals. The cost of bleach in my earlier post is actually the cost of pre-bleach.

Now it is clear the alternatives for Kodak E-6 5L kit are usually more expensive and more difficult to deal with due to the larger quantities.

 

[R Paul]

Unique photo out in new jersey has quite a bit of E6 chemistry (I ended up buying one bottle from Adorama because they were out). The 10L components aren't cheap, but they have them and they are very helpful indeed. I think they spent twenty minutes hunting down the various bottles on my list , and they were actually happy to do it. I do believe they ship as well
They are also open on Saturday
Dead Link Removed

I ended up collecting everything but the bleach, as it cost as much as the rest of the kit, and ended up using an alternative one instead . Mixing is a pain because you have to make stock solutions from the bottles and then use those to make the actual working solutions. Thing is you end up with 1,140 ml of a couple of stock solutions, and it's like gee,couldn't you guys figure out how to make it come out to an even liter.
I actually worked out a chart that did just that
rob

 

[brucemuir]

Rob,
What are you using for Bleach?

 

[R Paul]

what bleach?

At first I tried using a ferricyanide bleach,but it really messed up the films, then I received a persulfate/hydroquinone bleach formula from a fellow APUG member.
It works fine, but it's not as pleasant to me as the Kodak stuff
Rob

 

[brucemuir]

Rob,
Thanks for that reply.
Considering the current situation with scoring bleach I'm always interested in what people are doing to solve the issue.

 

[bwfans]

At first I tried using a ferricyanide bleach,but it really messed up the films, then I received a persulfate/hydroquinone bleach formula from a fellow APUG member.
It works fine, but it's not as pleasant to me as the Kodak stuff
Rob

Hi Rob,

Great to hear there is some alternative bleach that works. Can you post the formula?

 

[michaelbsc]

Unique photo out in new jersey has quite a bit of E6 chemistry (I ended up buying one bottle from Adorama because they were out). The 10L components aren't cheap, but they have them and they are very helpful indeed. I think they spent twenty minutes hunting down the various bottles on my list , and they were actually happy to do it. I do believe they ship as well
They are also open on Saturday
Dead Link Removed

I ended up collecting everything but the bleach, as it cost as much as the rest of the kit, and ended up using an alternative one instead . Mixing is a pain because you have to make stock solutions from the bottles and then use those to make the actual working solutions. Thing is you end up with 1,140 ml of a couple of stock solutions, and it's like gee,couldn't you guys figure out how to make it come out to an even liter.
I actually worked out a chart that did just that
rob

Is you're list the one posted on APUG recently? Anyone remember where that was? In this thread?

I just email them to get verification that they'll ship the stuff. I'll let everyone know hat I hear.

Michael