Suggested replacement for Kodak E6 kit

warrennn · Nov 11, 2010

Apparently Kodak has discontinued the 5 liter single-use 6 bath E6 kit. Can anyone suggest a good quality replacement? I have heard that the 3 bath kits are not as good as the Kodak.

I assume I can purchase the Kodak chemicals separately; are there reasonable substitutions I can make? For example, can I use another first developer or fixer? I noticed that Adorama sells some of the materials in fairly large quantities.

I have been enjoying the Kodak kits and have enough left for about 15 rolls of 120 film. After this runs out (about a year or two at my current rate) I would like to find something with equivalent quality.

Thanks.

Warren Nagourney

Ektagraphic · Nov 11, 2010

The kit is still listed on Kodak's website here http://www.kodak.com/global/en/prof...e6Kit/e6Index.jhtml?pq-path=13318/13629/13815

It is still seems to be for sale as well at B&H. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/168849-REG/Kodak_1077643_E_6_Single_Use_Film_Processing.html

Diapositivo · Nov 11, 2010

I use the Ornano kit for E-6 "KI90", a single-use six-bath kit suitable for rotary processors, and I am satisfied with the product.
The kit contains concentrated for 5 litres of each diluted solutions.
Depending on where you live, it can be easy or hard to find. In Italy is probably much more common than any other E-6 chemistry.
I bought my kit from an eBay shop, eBay user: Westernphotonline, which also sells abroad, but you should check costs and restrictions for hazardous materials first. You can also buy the single components separately.

The final bath in the kit is a "stabilizer", it contains formalin so it is suitable for old films or for modern non-Kodak and non-Fuji films.

Fabrizio

brucemuir · Nov 11, 2010

B&H will still get these for you but they will not ship.
I'm about to bribe my buddie up in the City to go over there and send me maybe 2 kits.

I've looked at assembling the chemicals individually but that is even more of a nightmare than figuring out sources for C41 (bleach being the hardest to find)

Adorama will ship and has some but not all the chemicals and sometimes will stock part A of a solution but no part B or C if needed.
Major PITA.

I think the best bet is to look to a minilab supplier.

anikin · Nov 11, 2010

Calumetphoto still has 5L kit in stock. I just received one from them a few weeks ago and it looks like a fresh kit from Kodak. I wonder where this rumor
is coming from?

Ektagraphic · Nov 11, 2010

Calumet photo is also a great place to get stuff

warrennn · Nov 11, 2010

Thanks for the responses.

My source for the "rumor" is a letter from Kodak which was posted on a large format website -- the claim is that the demand for these kits is low.

Apparently, Glazer's (in Seattle, where I live) still can get some kits -- I have reserved the one they have in the store and will buy some more when they get them in.

I guess the best policy for me would be to buy as many kits as I can and store them in my downstairs refrigerator. I think 5 or 6 kits should be enough for the next 10 to 20 years, after which film availability might be a problem. Each kit develops 10 rolls of 120 film.

Even though the kits are supposedly for "single use", has anyone tried to use the various replenishers to allow re-use of the chemicals?

frobozz · Nov 11, 2010

warrennn said:
Even though the kits are supposedly for "single use", has anyone tried to use the various replenishers to allow re-use of the chemicals?

From the description on the Calumet website (which I think is just taken from the Kodak literature):

Approximately 10 to 12 square feet of film (about twenty 135-36 rolls) can be processed through a 5-litre sink line using this chemistry in a batch mode. After this much film has been processed, you can increase your first developer time by 20 to 30 seconds and your bleach time from 6 to 10 minutes to process another 5 to 6 square feet of film (about ten 135-36 rolls) with satisfactory sensitometric results.

Duncan

kb3lms · Nov 12, 2010

I just received one from Calumet as well. Mine was back-ordered, so it wasn't just sitting in the warehouse. It also looks quite fresh.

Diapositivo · Nov 13, 2010

warrennn said:
My source for the "rumor" is a letter from Kodak which was posted on a large format website -- the claim is that the demand for these kits is low.

Could you please post the link of the large format website so that we can read the exact wording?
Saying that demand for something is low is quite different from saying that a product has been discontinued. And if people spread those false rumours, other people will believe them and products will ultimately be discontinued. May I suggest not to spread any kind of "rumours".

warrennn said:
I guess the best policy for me would be to buy as many kits as I can and store them in my downstairs refrigerator. I think 5 or 6 kits should be enough for the next 10 to 20 years, after which film availability might be a problem. Each kit develops 10 rolls of 120 film.

Before planning a bulk purchase to be preserved in fridge I would check the technical documentation regarding storage temperature. The chemistry I use (Ornano E-6, one-shot) asks for a storage temperature above 12 °C. The kit by Kodak should not be radically different.

Fabrizio

hrst · Nov 13, 2010

AG Photographic reported that they "believe" that it's been discontinued -- so at least they cannot get it from Kodak anymore, so they replaced it with FujiHunt kits.

I was really sure I had read the discontinuation notice from Kodak website, but cannot find it now! Maybe it was just a (bad) dream...

All I can find is just a random quote apparently from "Kodak", saying: "the Kodak Professional E-6 5L Kit was discontinued and is no longer available. This decision was based on the lack of sales of this product. We continue to offer the 10-liter sizes of the Kodak E-6 Chemicals through most dealers of Kodak Professional products. Please be aware that you would also need to use the 1st, CD and Bleach Starters when making your working tank solutions." This quote is from a Finnish photography forum but does not state source, just "Kodak".

Apparently, at the same time there was a rumor of Fuji Hunt E6 kits discontinued at the Large Format Forum, but that, at least, is not true! They are readily available at least in Europe.

brucemuir · Nov 13, 2010

It has been removed from Adorama website where I used to order it but that certainly isn't a 100% indication or verification it has been discontinued.

Usually if it is still available it will let you purchase one and they will ship when they get them in stock.

Uniquephoto in Joisy (that's in the USA ) recently has listed these as out of stock. Again, not any indication of real availability but the evidence is mounting.

I thought I read somewhere they were being discontinued IN THE US but I don't want to start any rumors :/
I'm sure there are some still in the supply line.

Keep in mind what gets discontinued in the US may not apply anywhere else.

AgX · Nov 14, 2010

Warren,

-) Several manufacturers offer E-6 kits for 5L working solutions. Naming them makes no sense as shipping to where in the world you might be located might be costly.
-) Before stocking several of those kits you might rather buy a small professional kit.

warrennn · Nov 15, 2010

Here is the full text of the email (which also appears above), including the signature of the sender:

Re: R.I.P. Kodak E6 Kits
Well I have confirmation from Kodak that they are in fact discontinued.

Kodaks response to my email inquiry:

"Dear Tony,

Yes, the Kodak Professional E-6 5L Kit was discontinued and is no longer available. This decision was based on the lack of sales of this product. We continue to offer the 10-liter sizes of the Kodak E-6 Chemicals through most dealers of Kodak Professional products. Please be aware that you would also need to use the 1st, CD and Bleach Starters when making your working tank solutions.

Please let us know if you have future questions on this or other of our Kodak Professional products.

Sincerely,

Peter V.
Kodak Professional
Technical Support
800-242-2424 ext. 19"

The website where this appeared is:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=65580&page=2

Thanks, AgX -- I believe the 5L kit we are discussing is considered a "professional" kit. Are you aware of another "small" professional kit from Kodak? Google didn't help on this one.

Warren N

AgX · Nov 16, 2010

Warren, with professional kits I meant those kits starting at 6 x 5L working solution each (just to give one example, maybe there are smaller kits out there).
Sorry for having been ambiguous.

Diapositivo · Nov 16, 2010

warrennn said:
Re: R.I.P. Kodak E6 Kits
Well I have confirmation from Kodak that they are in fact discontinued.

Kodaks response to my email inquiry:

"Dear Tony,

Yes, the Kodak Professional E-6 5L Kit was discontinued and is no longer available. This decision was based on the lack of sales of this product. We continue to offer the 10-liter sizes of the Kodak E-6 Chemicals through most dealers of Kodak Professional products.

[...]

From what I read it should be clear that Kodak E-6 kits have not been discontinued at all.

A commercial decision has been made to sell this product only in 10 litres kits. The 5 litres kit will not be made available any more.

So no need to stock 5 litres kits for the future, and no need to spread unsubstantiated rumours.

Fabrizio

warrennn · Nov 16, 2010

As I read the email from Kodak, they are not selling 10L kits but only individual chemicals which allow one to make 10 liter working solutions (the comment on needing starters is pretty conclusive -- these are not used in the kits). Unfortunately, as someone in the large format thread has calculated, the cost per 5 liters of working solution would be about twice the cost of the 5L kit. (I refuse to respond to the comment on "unsubstantiated rumors").

AgX, do you know of any larger kits (30 liter, as you suggest) made by Kodak? The only "kit" made by Kodak, as far as I know, is the discontinued 5L one. For larger amounts of material, one is expected to go the starter/replenisher route with individual chemicals.

By "kit", I mean all of the chemicals assembled in a single package with relatively simple procedures to generate the final solutions. Some people object to using "starters", which require precise measuring of very small amounts of material (using a hypodermic syringe should make this fairly easy...). Kits larger than 5L would be very nice, but I am not aware of any.

2F/2F · Nov 16, 2010

I would not store your stockpile in the fridge. The developer can crystallize, and I don't see how it would make the chemicals last any longer anyhow.

2F/2F · Nov 16, 2010

Diapositivo said:
From what I read it should be clear that Kodak E-6 kits have not been discontinued at all.

A commercial decision has been made to sell this product only in 10 litres kits. The 5 litres kit will not be made available any more.

So no need to stock 5 litres kits for the future, and no need to spread unsubstantiated rumours.

Fabrizio

The OP was correct in stating that the Kodak 5L E-6 kit is discontinued. Additionally, the chemicals sold to make up 10L do not come in kits, as you stated. What is your beef?

AgX · Nov 16, 2010

Warren, you are right concerning the designation "kit". But as the different chemistries offered in larger volumes form kind of `families´ I resorted to the term kit there also.
But I do not understand your penchant for getting everything complete in a box.

In case those small amounts you are seeking are not available you either,

-) have to resort to small kits from other manufacturers

-) use instead lager containers, in this case you have to order the concentrates apart (not a kit). That could still be cheaper than buying several of small kits on reserve as you considered too. For Kodak chosing the right component may be difficult due to their (to my mind) confusing listing. Which manufacturer you choose depends on what is most easily available (shipping) where you are located.
Another issue may be the starters (where needed): these are typically sold in huge amounts. Making a starter yourself might be an outcome.

ZoneIII · Nov 16, 2010

Fabrizio: Warrennn was correct. The 10 liter kit is not the same as the single use kit and, according to Kodak, the 5L kit has been discontinued. In two of your posts you referred to Warrenn's comments as "unsubstantiated rumors" or "false rumors." IMO, that's an insulting thing to say to someone who was just reporting what he had read and who was trying to help. As a matter of fact, I read the same letter that Warrennn read (and which he posted here) and that makes it substantiated and NOT a "false rumor." The 10 liter kit is much more difficult to work with than the 5L kit, especially for the home user. Frankly, I think you owe Warrennn an apology but that's just my opinion.

warrennn · Nov 16, 2010

Beef? I have none -- if you read the OP, you will see that I was asking about possible alternate approaches to E6 processing.

So far, we have two approaches: individual chemicals (twice as expensive as the Kodak kit) and 3 bath kits (possibly not as good).

2F/2F · Nov 16, 2010

warrennn said:
Beef? I have none -- if you read the OP, you will see that I was asking about possible alternate approaches to E6 processing.

So far, we have two approaches: individual chemicals (twice as expensive as the Kodak kit) and 3 bath kits (possibly not as good).

...and if you read my "beef" post, you will see that I was not talking to you, but to the guy who was being a jerk to you!

warrennn · Nov 16, 2010

Sorry! You are absolutely right. I should have read it more carefully.

Warren

ZoneIII · Nov 16, 2010

warrennn said:
Beef? I have none -- if you read the OP, you will see that I was asking about possible alternate approaches to E6 processing.

So far, we have two approaches: individual chemicals (twice as expensive as the Kodak kit) and 3 bath kits (possibly not as good).

Warrennn: If you look at the original "beef" post, you will see that he was responding to Fabrizio, not you. He was defending your position.

Whoops! I see the misunderstanding has already been corrected.

In any case, I'm with you on this, warrnennn, and I am looking for an alternative to the 5L kit myself. Best.

Suggested replacement for Kodak E6 kit

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