Subscription rate changes

Flotsam · Oct 17, 2005

Sean isn't asking about raising the subscription rates because he has his eye on a string of polo ponies that he would like to purchase. He would just like to afford to pay the overhead and get paid for his time. I have a hard time finding that unreasonable.

If you only feel that you are getting 20 dollars worth of value out of APUG and you don't feel that the subscriber benefits are worth the money, there's no problem. Contribute 20 dollars to the site and enjoy. If you think that it is smarter to just take without offering any support, then Sean has given you a generous gift of maintaining this unique forum without requiring any compensation at all. It is like my listener supported radio analogy. You make the judgement. I never look to see whether somebody has member or subscriber under his name in the forums.

panchromatic · Oct 17, 2005

Sean,

100% supported, you mentioned a student rate/rate for people battling exchange rates, but for me that doesn't work. I am a student (both of photography/accounting) I also have bills and college to pay for, and am not able to hold a fulltime job because of that fact, so money can be tight. BUT with that said I would LOVE to pay $24 for this site. Its a fantastic site and The community (for the most part) is amazingly open, friendly, and informative. I sincerely hope the majority feels the same way I do.

Congrats and bravo to creating/maintaining an amazing site.

(PS: Neal, well put)

gbroadbridge · Oct 18, 2005

Satinsnow said:
Graham,

But your the only one that seems to want to discuss it?

Either you will or you won't, what is so hard to see in that, Sean has made his choice and it is his website......

Yes you may be able to duplicate, but you will never replace this website, either get on the horse or get off..

you got a 50% choice to make here, and we will go on learning while you make your choice..

Get over it, get under it, or just get off it..

Dave

No, I'm not the only one. Sean will discover to his dismay that there are a lot of folks like me.

Anyway, as you suggest I'll vote with my feet.

Regards
Graham.

Dave Parker · Oct 18, 2005

gbroadbridge said:
No, I'm not the only one. Sean will discover to his dismay that there are a lot of folks like me.

Anyway, as you suggest I'll vote with my feet.

Regards
Graham.

Okay..

Sean does not seem to be in much dismay over this, and if he is, I will up my contribution to cover you and your crowd...I know it is important and is needed.

perhaps you don't. By the way, why are you the only one saying anything against this???? Please answer this question, I have asked it a couple of times this evening.

Please wash them feet before you vote with them..

Sean, if you loose subscribers over this increase, I will cover every single one of them if you want or need, I know exactly what this web site means and will do everthing in my power to keep it going. Period, plain and simple, there you go aurgument is over!!!

Dave

MurrayMinchin · Oct 18, 2005

gbroadbridge said:
No, I'm not the only one. Sean will discover to his dismay that there are a lot of folks like me.

Anyway, as you suggest I'll vote with my feet.

Regards
Graham.

Too bad. I suspect you and the other folks will be back to use the search function in the future, and I don't have a problem with that...because the wealth of information this site contains will always be more important than any one ego.

I will double the $24.00 next year and sign up with $48.00. Why? I believe Sean should be fairly compensated for the good job he's doing, and because as good as APUG is now, I think this sites true importance will grow exponentially in the future as our numbers dwindle.

I'm far from rich, so what money I spend I make sure goes where I want it to. That means I'll pay more for a can of Canadian salmon when there's cheaper cans from somewhere else in the world, or I'll wait a couple weeks for Canadian or local produce instead of buying earlier/cheaper produce from warmer countries, or I'll buy footwear that's not made in third world sweatshops, etc...

One person walks, I pay double, no problem

Murray

david b · Oct 18, 2005

Let me state the obvious before I make another comment.

First, I love this place. That is obvious.
Second, Sean is doing an amazing job. That too is obvious.

As for renewing my own subscription, I will evaluate things when it expires in February. Until that time, it's not really a concern for me.

But I would like to make a few observations.

This site is called ANALOG PHOTOGRAPHY USERS GROUP. It is not called Sean's Website for Analog Photography. Yes, Sean does own the site, but it is now ours, the photographic community.

Also, the home page states APUG is sponsored by members. This is no longer true as it is fee based. If it was sponsored, like a museum for example, I would be able to pay what I wanted to or could afford.

I see no harm, and great value, in Sean stating what kind of time he is putting into this site. If he is asking for a rate increase, like the cable or phone company, tell us, the customers, why you need this. What is the harm? Don't just say hey guys, I am jacking the rates because we are growing by 100 members a month. This means nothing to me. How does 100 new members a month affect the amount of time it takes to maintain this site? I have no idea. I think 8440 (of 8447) members probably feel the same way.

That's all for now. Flame On!

kjsphoto · Oct 18, 2005

$24 is nothing. Look I dont have much but I have $24 for a subscription and I even gave a bit more. Why? Because as a ex=developer, I know the hell Sean has to go through to keep this site going. And let me tell you this, $24 is nothing especially for what this site has to offer and the AMOUNT OF WORK AND TIME he has put into it. WHy dont you tell you boss you will work next year for $12. The whole year for $12. Then tell me how you feel.

Sean $24 is fine and I thank you for all your hard work and determination to keep this one of the better photo sites on the web.

Kev

Dave Parker · Oct 18, 2005

david b said:
Let me state the obvious before I make another comment.

First, I love this place. That is obvious.
Second, Sean is doing an amazing job. That too is obvious.

As for renewing my own subscription, I will evaluate things when it expires in February. Until that time, it's not really a concern for me.

But I would like to make a few observations.

This site is called ANALOG PHOTOGRAPHY USERS GROUP. It is not called Sean's Website for Analog Photography. Yes, Sean does own the site, but it is now ours, the photographic community.

Also, the home page states APUG is sponsored by members. This is no longer true as it is fee based. If it was sponsored, like a museum for example, I would be able to pay what I wanted to or could afford.

I see no harm, and great value, in Sean stating what kind of time he is putting into this site. If he is asking for a rate increase, like the cable or phone company, tell us, the customers, why you need this. What is the harm? Don't just say hey guys, I am jacking the rates because we are growing by 100 members a month. This means nothing to me. How does 100 new members a month affect the amount of time it takes to maintain this site? I have no idea. I think 8440 (of 8447) members probably feel the same way.

That's all for now. Flame On!

David,

Pay or don't pay, I will still pay for you to be here, as I said this is getting out of hand.

And I think you are Wrong in your assessment of 8440 of 8447 that feel the same way...

Dave Parker

david b · Oct 18, 2005

I would bet the majority of members/subscribers would like to know why the "sponsorship" is going up.

All that I am asking for is an explanation of why the rate needs to go up. And telling me I don't need to know or that it is none of my business, well, is not good for business.

Dave Parker · Oct 18, 2005

Time and effort David as well as costs for dedicated systems increase.. when you run a website of this size, it is not cheap, Sorry to say the net is not free, and for the cost Sean is asking, he is very reasonable...

THE NET IS NOT FREE FOLKS, get over it, yes there is free stuff on the net, but if you want something that means something it is not free!

And the majority of the members are not subscribers, if they were, then this conversation would not ever happen!

Dave

david b · Oct 18, 2005

Time for bed. Have a good night.

Dave Parker · Oct 18, 2005

david b said:
Time for bed. Have a good night.

Good Night

Sean · Oct 18, 2005

david b said:
I would bet the majority of members/subscribers would like to know why the "sponsorship" is going up.

All that I am asking for is an explanation of why the rate needs to go up. And telling me I don't need to know or that it is none of my business, well, is not good for business.

Hi, it was pretty much covered here at great length in the poll:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

The figure you mentioned earlier of 100 per month, just to correct that it's 100+ per week (112 last week). If anyone here is familiar with I.T. support you know what can be involved when a user base increases by 100 per week. I can quite consistently get 20-40 mails and PM's for apug a day, so imagine a year from now. Many of the new folks need a little hand holding at first to get up and running in an unfamiliar system and there is other general support such as name changes, paypal subscription issues, forgotten passwords, keeping sponsors happy, various site bugs, you name it..

I don't mind discussing such things but have pretty much run out of things to say..

JHannon · Oct 18, 2005

Sean,

I have been with APUG from the start (Sept 2002). Like I said in the poll, I fully support the increase (I did my own increase to $24 over a year ago).

Just wanted to let you know that your efforts and dedication are appreciated.

Regards,
John

panchromatic · Oct 18, 2005

david b said:
Also, the home page states APUG is sponsored by members. This is no longer true as it is fee based. If it was sponsored, like a museum for example, I would be able to pay what I wanted to or could afford.

In my opinion, not that I'm going against what your saying, but museums require a "donation" well at APUG we do not. You are still able to post and get a wealth of information without paying... if you wish to be a member you pay a small fee of $24 per year. I'm not a member of any museums but I know you pay alot more per year for museum membership.

I think the key thing is that sean still allows you to use most of this site without paying, which in my opinion is awesome. Donate what you want, and if you feel like being a subscriber then do so, if not enjoy APUG anyway.

jd callow · Oct 18, 2005

I subscribe, will continue to subscribe and I also do what ever I can to send more money APUG's way.

I do not have a lot of money. It is a personal choice

As stated earlier try and ask a book a question.

If all 8451 members subscribed and Sean still wanted 24.00 I would pay and feel it was a bargain. The value I put on the site is personal the money Sean makes (if any at all) is none of my business and has no bearing on my chioce to pay.

laz · Oct 18, 2005

Sean said:
Hi, it was pretty much covered here at great length in the poll:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

The figure you mentioned earlier of 100 per month, just to correct that it's 100+ per week (112 last week). If anyone here is familiar with I.T. support you know what can be involved when a user base increases by 100 per week. I can quite consistently get 20-40 mails and PM's for apug a day, so imagine a year from now. Many of the new folks need a little hand holding at first to get up and running in an unfamiliar system and there is other general support such as name changes, paypal subscription issues, forgotten passwords, keeping sponsors happy, various site bugs, you name it..

I don't mind discussing such things but have pretty much run out of things to say..

Davidb, shut-up already!

Yeah I know that wasn't very nice but I am embarrassed that Sean feels he has to defend the work he does here.

-Bob

Dave Wooten · Oct 18, 2005

Just drink one less brewski per week...and you will probably net over 50 bucks clear....after paying the subscription and giving a gift subscription...

Flotsam · Oct 18, 2005

Dave Wooten said:
Just drink one less brewski per week...

Hey, hold on. Let's not panic here.

Loose Gravel · Oct 18, 2005

Is it rude to ask all those that post to subscribe? Does this drive away valuable resources? Is there a balance to be had? How many subscribers support how many users?

thedarkroomstudios · Oct 18, 2005

Yeah really... give up BEER? -- If we gave up beer how would we wash away the lingering taste of HaloChrome??? Sheesh

Just a reminder that of the 8000+ registered users, only ~250 voted. A slightly worse turnout than a typical US Presidential election. However, because polling is generally accepted as an accurate barometer of public opinion; I'd say that 87% is a pretty damn good argument Sean has made a well-thought-out decision.
To the 9% who indicate they simply wish a lower fee, please consider continuing on with donations/payment (pick your terminology) as you have in the past and in whatever amount you deem appropriate.
To the 7% who indicate you would never pay any subscription I do hope you take the time to evaluate your contributions (both financial and intellectual) to the APUG community and strive to find a balance of give and take.
To Sean, your financials are no one's business but your own and I am not alone in my faith that your decisions are well thought out. We trust that you are striving for a fair and fruitful balance between your own needs (every man has to eat) and those of the community.

Off to look for my bottle opener (Oh, wait... it's only 1451, hmm, better wait)

-Brad

laz · Oct 18, 2005

Loose Gravel said:
Is it rude to ask all those that post to subscribe?

Do you mean just ask or make posting closed to any but subscribers?

If it's the latter then it defeats the whole purpose of an open-source site. Posting and reading should be open to all who have a browser. Additional features should require subscription.

Don't get my posts wrong, I have nothing against those who do not wish to subscribe. I'm just finding it a bit more than rude (not to mention tiresome) to have those who don't questioning the price and/or the practice.

It's a done deal!

papagene · Oct 18, 2005

I choose to support Sean and his efforts. $24.00/year is nothing compared to what I get out of this site: the info; the friendships; the Print Exchanges - hell that alone is worth the subscription cost!) and all the other aspects of APUG.
I ain't rich... far from it, sometimes I can't even afford the cost of supplies. But I am willing to put my money where my mouth is, have done so in the past and will continue to do so.
Sean - a grateful THANKS for all your efforts!

gene

Subscription rate changes

Flotsam

panchromatic

gbroadbridge

Dave Parker

MurrayMinchin

Membership Council

david b

kjsphoto

Dave Parker

david b

Dave Parker

david b

Dave Parker

Sean

Admin

JHannon

panchromatic

jd callow

Moderator

laz

Dave Wooten

Flotsam

Loose Gravel

thedarkroomstudios

laz

papagene

Membership Council

Subscription rate changes

Membership Council

Admin

Moderator

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Privacy & Transparency

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