Subscription rate changes

Ole · Oct 14, 2005

$24? Cheap at half the price!

At present I subscribe to several magazines in several fields. None of those subscriptions are as valuable to me as APUG. If I had to choose two, it would be APUG and Ailsa's Rag. If I had to choose one, it would be

Andy K · Oct 14, 2005

Due to a health problem (an injury, not a malaise), I am only able to work part-time. This means I have an extremely limited income. I have to scrimp and save for everything photographic.

$24 = £13.56 that's £1.13 a month, (or four pints of milk at an expensive supermarket).

I figure I can easily handle that increase (I'll just cut out my two downloads per month from iTunes ). I see it as justified and necessary to keep this one, single, unique, traditional photographic knowledge repository alive.
If there were alternatives to APUG I might question the increase, but there ARE NO ALTERNATIVES TO APUG. Every other photographic website is either completely digital or rapidly going that way. They are of no use to me. APUG is essential to me.

Go for it Sean.

Ole · Oct 14, 2005

That reminds me: If there is any member who is unable to meet this increase, I'm volunteering to sponsor no more than two other members. My back taxes just got reduced from 54K to 18K, so I'm feeling generous

laz · Oct 14, 2005

Humor alert! Don't proceed without a sense of humor!

Flotsam said:
IMHO, APUG is more valuable than any 'zine.

Surely you don't mean better than Inked/Focus!

Konical · Oct 14, 2005

Good Afternoon, Sean,

No problem at all with the $24.00; I assume that I will receive a reminder when my current subscription runs out next May???

Konical

jp80874 · Oct 14, 2005

Konical said:
Good Afternoon, Sean,

No problem at all with the $24.00; I assume that I will receive a reminder when my current subscription runs out next May???

Konical

Sean,

This reminder is important at least for me in my senior moments of memory. I remember I subscribed for this amount last spring or early summer, but I will need a reminder when it is due again. Can you program an automatic PM as a reminder so it remains private and not an embarrassment for those who do not wish to renew?

Thanks,

John Powers
Retired and loving APUG and Analog Photography

Jeremy · Oct 14, 2005

MattCarey said:
At this point, it is best to hear honest replies to whether a $24 subscription is too much.

I thought that was the entire point of the previous thread, to say if you would pay the $24. This isn't a question from Sean discussing the subscription rate, but instead an announcement in the announcement forum that the rates have been changed--end of story.

pentaxuser · Oct 14, 2005

gbroadbridge said:
Good luck Mike. All you say is true, but I'm not going to pay more than $20 for access to a website, no matter how interesting the content. It's not something I can stick on the bookshelf, the very nature of the web is transitory.

Graham.

The problem with books is that they can quickly become out of date and can only reflect a limited range of methods, experiences etc. With our range of members this site can cover new products very quickly. How many camera clubs would you need to visit to get the same range of generally well balanced views?

On the other hand books can be searched quickly and easily and as I said in an earlier thread on subscriptions, it would be nice if we could somehow get an "of the shelf" synopsis of certain topics in the form of articles. For instance my conclusion on Rodinal from dozens of threads is that there is almost universal agreement that it suits Ilford Pan F very well but on most other combinations there is much less agreement.

Still, if the $24 subscription puts APUG on a more secure financial footing then such improvements may follow. The quicker members gain value the more they may pay for future value. Within certain upper limits to subscriptions a virtuous circle of improvements to subscriptions can be started.

If APUG were to fold we cannot expect any commercial lprofit motive levers to create an equivalent site.

Pentaxuser

Pentaxuser

gbroadbridge · Oct 14, 2005

Well, this is one subscriber who would have renewed at $20, but definately will not at $24. One less subscriber to worry about.

Dave Parker · Oct 14, 2005

Well, I agree with just about everyone who has posted, and I want to bring up another point, as a couple of others have, and I have said it in the past, I am more than willing to chip in to help a couple be able to become a subscriber to this wonderful website, that is filled with far more information that you will find anywhere else in the world.

I started out the hard way, and there was NO single source of information available to the person wanting to become a photograher, this site, allows those that have a dream to attain that dream! Plain and simple, there is not other single source of photographic information available in the world, and that goes for magazines or online resources...

I can tell you after 20 years of playing with cameras, if you want to become a photographer and a printer, this is your best chance!! Period, no other choices..

Dave

Dave Parker · Oct 14, 2005

gbroadbridge said:
Well, this is one subscriber who would have renewed at $20, but definately will not at $24. One less subscriber to worry about.

Sorry to hear that Grahamn...

But at least you will still be able to access the website, even without being a subscriber, so other that a few selected features, you will be able to learn, from this wealth of knowledge, something that many of us never had the access to..

Good Shooting, I am sorry to see you go.

Dave

Andy K · Oct 14, 2005

gbroadbridge said:
Well, this is one subscriber who would have renewed at $20, but definately will not at $24. One less subscriber to worry about.

Sorry to hear that. The subscription increase was discussed at length (there was a url link here which no longer exists), if you considered it a problem you could have had your say there.

As I said previously $24 a year amounts to the equivalent of a couple of newspapers a month for me, and I am on an extremely restricted income, but I figure this site and it's benefits are well worth that $2 a month.

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 14, 2005

Satinsnow said:
I can tell you after 20 years of playing with cameras, if you want to become a photographer and a printer, this is your best chance!! Period, no other choices..

Dave

Well, I'm not sure I would agree with that, David. After all there are educational programs and classes and workshops you could take.

But they'll cost a heck of a lot more than $24 per year.

MattCarey · Oct 14, 2005

Jeremy Moore said:
I thought that was the entire point of the previous thread, to say if you would pay the $24. This isn't a question from Sean discussing the subscription rate, but instead an announcement in the announcement forum that the rates have been changed--end of story.

I can't speak for Sean, but he has always seemed to value input from members as he has considered each step. A move like this has the potential to kill the site, so I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to hear from both sides. I just wanted to point out that often in these discussions the voice of support can be so strong that it can be difficult to voice dissent.

Besides, if it was the "end of story", then the thread should/would have been locked after Sean's first post.

That aside, the announcements from J&C about sales have saved me much more than $24 this year. Not to mention some really good deals on used equipment from APUG-ers (or free lensboards--thanks Alan!). Other values from the site may be hard to value in dollars (or euros, or whatever), but that comes down to cold hard cash saved that I wouldn't have saved otherwise.

Matt

Dave Parker · Oct 14, 2005

David A. Goldfarb said:
Well, I'm not sure I would agree with that, David. After all there are educational programs and classes and workshops you could take.

But they'll cost a heck of a lot more than $24 per year.

You are right David, but I guess, even with those classes, your not going to have the exposure to the diversity of world class photographers and printers you have on this one website, I have taken many workshops, but never have I been exposed to the subtle differences like this webiste does, I may be able to spend a weekend with a another pro, but never have I been able to spend a day with a group of pros, like I can here. For the amount of knowledge availabe here, I would spend thousands of dollars a quarter in a formal school..

Dave

Travis Nunn · Oct 14, 2005

Until I found this website, I never even considered paying dues for a website, especially when so much information here can be had for free. As a few others have stated, it is a personal decision whether to subscribe or not. If someone has made the decision that $24 is too much for them (financially or otherwise), that's their decision. Remind them of the benefits of this website, but don't try to argue or convince them to re-subscribe. Doing so only strengthens their resolve. If I had made my decision to not subscribe, I know that I wouldn't want someone pointing a finger at me telling me why I should subscribe.

Just for the record, I will subscribe at the $24 rate.

Aggie · Oct 14, 2005

I still think there should be more subscriber only benefits. Leave the forums like they are, but do other things that would be only for subscribers.

Flotsam · Oct 14, 2005

If you couldn't get past the front page without a subscription, then it would be a major problem but even as a member you can see and participate in the best of APUG. Sean is basically just tossing in a few extra features that cost him extra to provide in exchange for a voluntary contribution. Some of the subscriber benefits may be important to some people but it is easy to see that many here are contributing gladly, and more than is asked, simply to help support a unique and valued resource.

I certainly am not in a financial position to be a patron of the arts but I contribute to a couple of listener funded radio stations even though I could simply listen for free and no one would know or care. They are a welcome refuge from the horrible commercial radio crapfest. They are unique, commercial-free, I enjoy and listen to them for hours on end and it would be a true loss to me if they were no longer available. I hope that the small financial donation will demonstrate my support for their programming and be applied to helping to perpetuate them.

Mongo · Oct 14, 2005

First, I believe that anyone who chooses not to subscribe based on the price is well within their rights to speak out here, no matter how small a matter the money may seem. I'm sure that for some it won't be about the money per se, but rather about the significance of the jump, or the thought that the jump is greater than anticipated, or for any of a myriad of other reasons. Whatever the reason, I'm very happy that the forums are open to non-subscribers and I hope that those who choose not to become or remain subscribers will continue to be active on the site. The more people, the greater the knowledge base, and the better the site. Knowing the reason that some people choose not to subscribe or renew may help Sean adjust things in the future if the number of subscribers falls below what Sean needs to make APUG a real income generator for him.

As to pay-only features: I'll take a dissenting view. I couldn't care less about "subscriber only" benefits. I contribute to APUG because I like the access to the information and to the community that it gives me, and for no other reason. I suspect that a large percentage of subscribers have signed up simply as a way of helping assure that the site remains a viable concern. I've been contributing above the regular subscription level and will continue to do so whether Sean adds other "subscriber only" features to the site of not. I do hope, however, that nothing too valuable becomes "subscriber only", as I'd hate to think of alienating those who contribute their knowledge to the community without contributing financially.

Whether one chooses to subscribe or not is a personal decision, just like our decision to subscribe to a magazine. Given the instant nature of communications here on the 'net, I think it's a good thing that someone would choose to tell Sean why they were not going to subscribe. Sean gains more information that might be helpful to him in the future, and that can't be a bad thing, can it?

Be well.
Dave

Sean · Oct 14, 2005

Hi all, thanks so much to those of you showing such support and who even as of last night resubscribed at the new rate. A few of you went far beyond the norm and I can't thank you enough. What an amazing bunch of people you are! I was lucky enough to have 3 days in the darkroom this week and truly enjoyed it. This craft is and always will be a huge part of my life. I'm still a youngin at 32 and want to be printing for the rest of my days, as well as being surrounded by my good friends here. Anything less would be a personal tragedy for me. I'm feeling pretty good about where we are and where our community of photographers are headed. I look forward to meeting many of you at the conference! Thanks again, Sean

Donald Qualls · Oct 14, 2005

Argh.

Right after I lost my "new posts" flags *again*, this time due to server maintenance that started minutes after I logged in, is *not* the time I want to be seeing the rate increase announcement. All the tools in the world for viewing the forums in different ways won't substitute for being able to tell, easily, quickly, and on the fly, what threads have information in them I haven't read and which ones don't -- and when I don't have time to get in here twice a day, that comes to a LOT of stuff I had to dig through the hard way.

I'm a regular on three other photography forums. One has no useful means of telling what's new and what isn't, but presents the thread list in plain HTML with fixed URLs for each thread, so my browser can at least tell me which once I've looked at recently and which I haven't; their sub rate is $1 a year more than the new rate here, and I've never paid it (going on three years as a freeloader, and the place is getting less friendly; about time to clear out my porfolio there and depart). Another is pretty much the same setup as here, but without local storage of images and without the depth of critques available, but hasn't asked for any money yet. The third, also not asking for my money, easily keeps track of what I've read and what I haven't, regardless of my comings and goings, but it's a specialty site, not for general photography, and the membership is small.

And with my budget, I have to think about $12 a year, much less $24. I paid it once; now I have to wonder if I'll be *able* to pay the new rate when it's due. Not a matter of being unable to pay, period, just a matter of possibly having to put it off a month.

And yes, that does mean I often can't afford film or can't afford to have my C-41 film processed (though at least I have chemicals laid in when things were a little better to keep me going in B&W, as long as I have film). This is a damned expensive hobby for an unemployed man, and $24 will buy me nineteen rolls of one of my favorite films, exclusive of shipping.

Sean · Oct 15, 2005

Donald Qualls said:
Argh.

Right after I lost my "new posts" flags *again*, this time due to server maintenance that started minutes after I logged in, is *not* the time I want to be seeing the rate increase announcement. All the tools in the world for viewing the forums in different ways won't substitute for being able to tell, easily, quickly, and on the fly, what threads have information in them I haven't read and which ones don't -- and when I don't have time to get in here twice a day, that comes to a LOT of stuff I had to dig through the hard way.

I'm a regular on three other photography forums. One has no useful means of telling what's new and what isn't, but presents the thread list in plain HTML with fixed URLs for each thread, so my browser can at least tell me which once I've looked at recently and which I haven't; their sub rate is $1 a year more than the new rate here, and I've never paid it (going on three years as a freeloader, and the place is getting less friendly; about time to clear out my porfolio there and depart). Another is pretty much the same setup as here, but without local storage of images and without the depth of critques available, but hasn't asked for any money yet. The third, also not asking for my money, easily keeps track of what I've read and what I haven't, regardless of my comings and goings, but it's a specialty site, not for general photography, and the membership is small.

And with my budget, I have to think about $12 a year, much less $24. I paid it once; now I have to wonder if I'll be *able* to pay the new rate when it's due. Not a matter of being unable to pay, period, just a matter of possibly having to put it off a month.

And yes, that does mean I often can't afford film or can't afford to have my C-41 film processed (though at least I have chemicals laid in when things were a little better to keep me going in B&W, as long as I have film). This is a damned expensive hobby for an unemployed man, and $24 will buy me nineteen rolls of one of my favorite films, exclusive of shipping.

I'd like that feature too Donald. I thought I got lucky and found a code modification that does this, however it is still in beta and the developer stressed "if you want to put my beta modification in a production environment you are crazy", so I am hoping there is another similar modification that I just haven't found yet. I posted in the modification boards for another shot at finding something..

arigram · Oct 15, 2005

I earn about 600-700 euros a month.
Right now my bank account has 150 euros because I spent what I had collected
to buy a stove, a refridgerator and kitchen stuff.
Thankfully I have film in storage but I am running out of paper.
Life here is expensive. I go out once or twice a week and drink a beer or two a the most.
The only hope of earning something would be from my analog photography carreer I am starting up (yes, its pathetic I know).

Yet, I will gladly pay the new subscription price so APUG can continue.

Claude · Oct 15, 2005

0.33us$ per month is not a problem Sean, regarding on the works and costs !
Comparing to the increase of gazoline prices in europe its a dropplet.
Friendly
Claude

MurrayMinchin · Oct 15, 2005

I subscribed at $24.00 months ago. When I next subscribe I'll double it again to $48.00.

While not being financially poor, I have no concept of "disposable income". APUG and LensWork are the two things I subscribe to.

Murray

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