Subscription rate changes

Sean · Oct 14, 2005

Hi All, I have raised the subscription rates to correspond to a rate of $24US per year. Many are aware of the recent discussion we had about the rates. There are also two rates for students and those who might have financial hardship (mainly international users battling exchange rates). It was a tough decision to do this, and quite possibly a change that will define the future of the site. If subs continue to come in at the new rate, then working apug as a dedicated part timer could become a reality. This means continued improvement of the site and quality growth. If subs die out because of this increase then I would probably have to re-evaluate my commitment to running such a time consuming venture plus a day job (running out of gas). I am optimistic that many will put the cost into perspective and $2 per month will not seem like too much. I would love to keep our momentum going. Many of you have already renewed your subscriptions at a higher rate and I am very grateful. If things continue as they are I could be working apug part time in Jan/Feb. I hope you guys can understand where I am coming from.

Thanks!, Sean

wfe · Oct 14, 2005

Sean,
You are doing some great work here and I would like to see it grow and continue. I am currently subscribed at $12 and have no problem with the $24 rate. How do I renew my subscription at $24?

rbarker · Oct 14, 2005

It seems to me that $24US for APUG is a far better deal than most magazine subscriptions. The new rate won't dissuade me from renewing when the time comes.

gbroadbridge · Oct 14, 2005

Sean,

I thought the recent discussion was about $20 per year for a sub.

I think that $24 is pushing it a bit.

Regards
Graham.

Jeremy · Oct 14, 2005

gbroadbridge said:
Sean,

I thought the recent discussion was about $20 per year for a sub.

I think that $24 is pushing it a bit.

Regards
Graham.

The extra ~$0.33/month is pushing it a bit? And in the recent discussion the original $20 price point was changed to $24/year to make partial year subscriptions $2/month instead of $1.667/month and there were no objections based on the increase from $20->$24.

gbroadbridge · Oct 14, 2005

Well the extra $0.33 per month may sound irrelevant but it adds up to an extra $4 a year. Golly gosh, it's lucky you're a mathematician. Maybe you can do the sums for me and work out the additional cost over 5 years.

That $4 makes a difference between me renewing or not.
$20 bucks I renew, $24 I think about it, and probably don't

If I were Sean, I'd prefer to get people renewing rather than thinking about renewing.

Graham.

Mike Kennedy · Oct 14, 2005

Sub. rates.

Graham is correct Sean. That extra .33 cents a month is going to break my bank account,NOT!
I have made many friends and learned far more here on APUG than any photo course I have attended. When I renew I will actually send in more $ then the going rate.

Long Live Analog
Long Live APUG

Mike

gbroadbridge · Oct 14, 2005

Mike Kennedy said:
Graham is correct Sean. That extra .33 cents a month is going to break my bank account,NOT!
I have made many friends and learned far more here on APUG than any photo course I have attended. When I renew I will actually send in more $ then the going rate.

Long Live Analog
Long Live APUG

Mike

Good luck Mike. All you say is true, but I'm not going to pay more than $20 for access to a website, no matter how interesting the content. It's not something I can stick on the bookshelf, the very nature of the web is transitory.

Graham.

laz · Oct 14, 2005

Everybody whoa! Please don't argue $$! What each of us is willing to pull out of our pockets for anything is an extremely personal decision. This includes pronouncements on what constitutes an "insignificant" anmout of money, again extremely personal decision

To question anyone's judgement of cost is bound to be offensive. I've been involved with a number of websites where these discussions have begun and they have all degenerated quickly into flame wars, hurt feelings and the loss of members.

-Bob

Robert Hall · Oct 14, 2005

Try asking the book a question it doesn't cover.

Something is either worth the price or it's not. Simply let your wallet speak for you. If it's too much, donate what you can if you find the site of benifit.

Simply put, this web site is expensive in terms of money and time. Think how good a photographer Sean would be if he used his time to photograph instead of helping out the entire community (well, ok, let's not ask for miracles. [just kidding there Sean]).

Let's all pitch in and keep this going in what ever way we can.

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 14, 2005

I've been subscribing at the $35 rate for two years now, so maybe I'll increase mine to the next increment next time around.

Jeremy · Oct 14, 2005

gbroadbridge said:
Well the extra $0.33 per month may sound irrelevant but it adds up to an extra $4 a year. Golly gosh, it's lucky you're a mathematician. Maybe you can do the sums for me and work out the additional cost over 5 years.

That $4 makes a difference between me renewing or not.
$20 bucks I renew, $24 I think about it, and probably don't

If I were Sean, I'd prefer to get people renewing rather than thinking about renewing.

Graham.

My comment was not made in effort to be snide, but to just break the cost down on a month-to-month basis. If you have personally decided that an extra $0.33/month, $4/year, $20/5 years is too much or you have decided that you would not spend over $20/month for a website that is your business. Breaking down the extra cost was not just for you, but for anyone else that looked at your posting and was thinking about how much it would cost them. Personally, I have contributed much more than $24/year because I learn so much here and because the things I have learned here have saved me much $$$ in trying to reinvent the wheel (i.e. don't use paper X for pd/pt printing because it won't work). I am sorry you took my posting as a personal affront and that you don't feel the knowledge and community available here at Apug are worth the extra, but I do hope you stay as a member if not a subscriber--the more analog photogs the better.

ps: I am not a mathematician nor do I play one on tv.

noblebeast · Oct 14, 2005

The way I see it, nearly everyone who comes to this site has complained about the increasing lack of content geared towards photographers using "traditional" materials and equipment in the available photo magazines. $24 is a little more than a yearly subscription to "Popular (Digital) Photography Adzine" or "Outdoor Digital Photographer" or any of the other periodicals that are readily available. $24 is less than the cost of the U.K. and Aussie mags that deal with mostly analog content - at least to have them delivered here to the States. On APUG, for my $24, I get all the technical information I could hope for regarding photographic materials and their uses, including a huge backlog of "back issues" that I can access easily with the search function - at no extra cost. If I can't find what I'm looking for through a search I can ask my question in a thread and get assistance from some great (and some not-so-great) photographic minds here at APUG, and those answers I receive will then become part of the wealth of information of which others can avail themselves. Additionally, I get to peruse the Gallery at my leisure and find joy, inspiration, boredom, and sometimes a well needed kick in the ass brought on by the work of other members.

So, when I add all that up, and realize how much moola I'm saving by not subscribing to frustrating hard copy photo magazines, I find that I come out well ahead for my investment.

Joe

Aggie · Oct 14, 2005

David A. Goldfarb said:
I've been subscribing at the $35 rate for two years now, so maybe I'll increase mine to the next increment next time around.

I have two of those going, so maybe I'll up both this next time as well. What are a couple less stops at starbucks, but less going to waist! ( I meant waist not waste, for those who like to critique my spelling)

Graham If need be and your stretched too thin, I can add an extra $4 to cover what you can't. You'll help out my figure!

Jim Chinn · Oct 14, 2005

Someone mentioned you can't put it on the shelf. When I find a thread that is pertinent to something I want to explore, I either make a hardcopy and file it in three ring binder or put it on my APUG "Greatest Hits" CD. I could cull enough good information and discussion in one day to fill the pages of all the traditional mags combined for one issue.

Like anything, you get out of something what you put into it. Not money but the time and effort to contribute and learn.

Dave Parker · Oct 14, 2005

I find life is to short and the information available on this website to valuable to worry about $4.00 over the span of a year, there is just to much being offered here that you can't find anywhere else..When you think about it, Illford is offering their weekend shop for a cost of $300 and you add travel time, food expenses, lodging and all the extras that go along with a weekend in a workshop, the cost of Apug for a whole year is virtually nothing...

Dave

MattCarey · Oct 14, 2005

Jeremy Moore said:
The extra ~$0.33/month is pushing it a bit? And in the recent discussion the original $20 price point was changed to $24/year to make partial year subscriptions $2/month instead of $1.667/month and there were no objections based on the increase from $20->$24.

At this point, it is best to hear honest replies to whether a $24 subscription is too much. It is easy to say that you will be willing to pay it. It is hard to come right out and say you won't. We need to hear from as many people who are on the fence or will not pay the $24 and understand how many people and why.

It is simple economics--for every dollar more for the subscription, fewer people will subscribe. At some point, there is a net loss in total cash. A second order effect is that if some good posters leave, more people will decide that the site isn't worth $24.

I can well remember a time when $24 would have been more that I would have been willing to pay. That time isn't now, but I can understand the thought.

Matt

noseoil · Oct 14, 2005

I'm willing to pay the $24 a year, if for nothing else than to hear some of the replies to questions no one I know can answer. If a question saves $10 worth of paper, time, film and developer, it is certainly worth the cost to me. No one in town where I live can answer some of the questions which I see so regularly. Rodinal, azo, pyrocat, forte, J&C, kodak, alternative process, how to...... It is a repository of knowledge, people and work which I value.

To ask Sean to pay for this site and his time away from his family, then get nothing back seems a bit selfish to me. He has put in countless hours with software, ideas, the coming sales gallery and too many changes to begin to list. I would hope everyone will take a step back and look at it as a resource which is limitless. tim

P.S. This has been a terrible year for me and my family for money, but it is one "luxury" which I am not willing to part company with at this point.

Jorge · Oct 14, 2005

gbroadbridge said:
Well the extra $0.33 per month may sound irrelevant but it adds up to an extra $4 a year. Golly gosh, it's lucky you're a mathematician. Maybe you can do the sums for me and work out the additional cost over 5 years.

That $4 makes a difference between me renewing or not.
$20 bucks I renew, $24 I think about it, and probably don't

If I were Sean, I'd prefer to get people renewing rather than thinking about renewing.

Graham.

If you are getting no benefit from APUG then dont subscribe. OTOH if you have a special interest and you have been helped by anybody here, or plan on trying something where you will need help, then you need to balance the cost of susbcribing for a year against the cost of a workshop.

When I started printing with pt/pd both Clay and Kerik were invaluable on giving me tips and helping me out, experience they shared freely with me here and by e mail for which they get paid normally in workshops. If I had been forced to take a workshop with them, or Arentz, I figure I would have spent about $1500 when you factor in plane, lodging, rental car, in addition to the workshop fee. This comes to about 60 years of APUG subscriptions at $25.

There are really many benefits to APUG which are not economic in nature. For example I am not very knowledgeable with computers, I recently bought an Agfa scanner that needed an SCSI card, not knowing anything about them I went to E bay and there was about a million of them of all different kinds, instead of spending 3 days learning about them and trying to figure out what would work, I asked Jeremy for help. He packed one and sent it to me! Where else could I have found help like this? How much would a technician have charged me if I had taken the pc in and asked him to set it up right?

Like the Master Card ad says, "scanner, $20. Getting the scanner to work, priceless!"

thedarkroomstudios · Oct 14, 2005

Well put Jorge. Hmm, to show my support... I shall institute an new employee benefit. You shall see 2 new subscribers

resummerfield · Oct 14, 2005

I'll go for 2 subscriptions too, Sean. This site has been a wealth of info.

RichSBV · Oct 14, 2005

I read through this thread and had an idea. Feel free to ignore it ;-)

In my opinion, you can't force someone to subscribe. It's very difficult to even convince someone to subscribe. At any cost... The best method is to entice people to subscribe. This means showing them the benefits of supporting APUG.

The basic problem is that APUG is an on-line resource. Most people feel that on-line resources should be free. I don't subscribe to any other on-line resource even thought there are a few that might benefit me personally... It's simply human nature. There's nothing here that can be held in the hand, put on a book shelf, taken to the 'throne" to be read at leasure, etc... It's difficult to make people realize that this is an honest, worthwhile resource that takes actual money to keep running...

Oh, my idea...

How about creating a 'testamonials' type page. We see them all the time at commercial sites so we can read comments by customers. people may just not realize what they are (or will be )missing by not supporting APUG.

And I'll offer a real world example...

Just today, I recieved my first dry mount press. Used of course (bought through APUG classfieds!), so no instruction manual.

Now I've dry mounted for years, but used the common household iron to do it. Never touched a real dry mount press in my life...

So, I wanted some direction and thoughts on how others used the presses.

A bookcase full of old magazines would have been next to worthless. I'm sure I have info in some of my books, but that would take hours. I had prints and mounting tissue waiting to be tested...

So I did a simple search here om APUG for "dry mount press". Got pages of returns. Took me about 15 minutes of reading through some of the threads to find all the info I needed.

And if it wasn't for thsi post, noone would ever know that I needed help with the press or that I found the help here in just a few minutes!

It certainly wouldn't be difficult to assemble similar short stories from other users, as shown by Jorge's post above and now mine. Info like that may hit just the right brain cell to make more people realize that they could also use the info stored here and helping to support APUG is the way to guarantee that the info is available next week, next moneth or next year when they buy something they have no idea how to use...

Just a thought...

modafoto · Oct 14, 2005

<KIDDING STARTS>

$24....Now Sean is pushing it!!!

I have NEVER seen anything like it!!! Double the price????

And Sean is only thinking of getting enough money to buy more film and a new 8x10!!!!

<KIDDING STOPS>

Hmmm....ok, Sean...I'll pay
You do a great job, and paying $24 for it is fair.

Flotsam · Oct 14, 2005

IMHO, APUG is more valuable than any 'zine. You can't ask a magazine a very specific question on virtually any topic related to analog photography and have it immediately answered and discussed from a variety of points of view and levels of experience. News and information found on APUG is always up to the second while magazines are always by necessity months behind the times.

I don't subcribe to any magazines but I'll continue to subscribe to APUG... even if I have to give up one of my many, many porn site subscriptions to swing it.

thedarkroomstudios · Oct 14, 2005

<carries on with the Dane>

So long as he buys his film and that new 8x10 from his Sponsors it's okay!!!

<stops carrying on with the Dane>

Subscription rate changes

Sean

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wfe

rbarker

gbroadbridge

Jeremy

gbroadbridge

Mike Kennedy

gbroadbridge

laz

Robert Hall

David A. Goldfarb

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Jeremy

noblebeast

Aggie

Jim Chinn

Dave Parker

MattCarey

noseoil

Jorge

thedarkroomstudios

resummerfield

RichSBV

modafoto

Flotsam

thedarkroomstudios

Subscription rate changes

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