Studying Trends at Walmart

[Alan Edward Klein]

Verify Your Identity

 

[MattKing]

Verify Your Identity

"

If you click on the "Sold by Walmart" filter, you will see that what we consider to be "film" just about disappears from that search.
The Walmart Marketplace web portal serves as the internet store for many retailers. "Sold by Walmart deletes all those 3rd party offerings. And then you scan what is left, to get some understanding of what is just in the warehouse, and not on the shelves.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

If you click on the "Sold by Walmart" filter, you will see that what we consider to be "film" just about disappears from that search.
The Walmart Marketplace web portal serves as the internet store for many retailers. "Sold by Walmart deletes all those 3rd party offerings. And then you scan what is left, to get some understanding of what is just in the warehouse, and not on the shelves.

Fulfilled by Walmart covers most all the major film mfrs. I:m not sure if all are on the shelves but you can have them sent to the stores and picked up when delivered there. Or you can have them shipped directly to your home.

film | Walmart Canada

film | Walmart Canada

www.walmart.ca

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

One cautionary tale. It might not relate similarly to Walmart. I once ordered film from Amazon. The expiry date was only 6 months or less, when B&H usually ran about 18 months. I returned the film to Amazon and checked directly with the Amazon supplier for expiry dates if re-ordered. They told me 6 months. So they're probably buying and reselling dated film more cheaply to resell to the unknowing public.

I also once ordered Duracell batteries from Amazon. The expiry dates on the batteries did not match the ones on the blister packs the batteries were contained it. A knockoff or theft, or some other fraud. This is the reason I usually deal with manufacturers directly or mainline retailers like B&H Photo. Amazon ( maybe Walmart) really deals with too many sellers they don't know and just pass on stuff without real inspection. Or Amazon stores stuff in their warehouse for too long, caring less about important details like expiry dates. They don't know what they're selling. They're not in the film or battery business. YMMV.

 

[MattKing]

Fulfilled by Walmart covers most all the major film mfrs. I:m not sure if all are on the shelves but you can have them sent to the stores and picked up when delivered there. Or you can have them shipped directly to your home.

film | Walmart Canada

film | Walmart Canada

www.walmart.ca

The thread is asking about what Walmart is selling at their Canadian stores - i.e. about what is on the shelves.
It isn't about what is available through 3rd parties and on the internet.

 

[Sharktooth]

Yes, I'm watching Walmart since it's one of the few mass market retail stores that still sells film on shelves. It really has nothing to do with how you or I view their retail practices in general, and if you agree with those practises, or not. I'm also not interested in what's being sold online, since we really can't tell how much of that is really being sold. In a retail store, the shelf space is too valuable to waste on items that don't sell well, or can't generate enough profit.

I'm also looking at color film specifically. The mass market switched totally to color many decades ago. Black and White film has been a tiny niche market since before the 80's.

I'm looking at Walmart as the "canary in the coal mine". If Walmart is no longer selling film, it probably means that film is truly dead in terms of any mass market appeal. We may be just kidding ourselves that there's some big resurgence in film sales that's going to make this a viable commercial opportunity for a whole slew of players, all competing on price. Wishful thinking aside, maybe there's really only room for one good color film manufacturer. When I see new players in the color film market, it all seems to be at higher prices than what Kodak is selling for. That seems like a non-starter to me, and just hurts Kodak sales that are already pretty low.

It looks like Walmart is still selling film in stores in the US, so there must be some appeal for film among the general shopping public. Drug stores also seem to be a common place to still buy film in the US. London Drugs in western Canada is another place that still sells film. Are there any other places you're aware of that still sell film to the general public (that aren't online operations, or specific photographic supply stores)?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The thread is asking about what Walmart is selling at their Canadian stores - i.e. about what is on the shelves.
It isn't about what is available through 3rd parties and on the internet.

Many of these items are held in Walmart depots. They're not coming from third parties. They will be sent over to the store if you want them and you can pick them up. There's only so much shelf space. Home Depot does this too.

 

[pentaxuser]

In a retail store, the shelf space is too valuable to waste on items that don't sell well, or can't generate enough profit.

I'm also looking at color film specifically.

I'm looking at Walmart as the "canary in the coal mine". If Walmart is no longer selling film, it probably means that film is truly dead in terms of any mass market appeal. We may be just kidding ourselves that there's some big resurgence in film sales that's going to make this a viable commercial opportunity for a whole slew of players, all competing on price. Wishful thinking aside, maybe there's really only room for one good color film manufacturer. When I see new players in the color film market, it all seems to be at higher prices than what Kodak is selling for. That seems like a non-starter to me, and just hurts Kodak sales that are already pretty low.

It looks like Walmart is still selling film in stores in the US, so there must be some appeal for film among the general shopping public. Drug stores also seem to be a common place to still buy film in the US. London Drugs in western Canada is another place that still sells film. Are there any other places you're aware of that still sell film to the general public (that aren't online operations, or specific photographic supply stores)?

The future of film is no doubt limited but a supermarket chain in the U.K. used to have a thriving Fuji film store attached to many of its bigger stores It had one in Northampton (England that is, not Mass) but it closed many years ago and yet colour film still survives so there is some comfort in that and I have no idea if the closure was initiated by the store chain or Fuji itself so do not know which of the 2 parties decided that it was no longer profitable to offer film via that chain of supermarkets

However I agree that film may never reach the volume sales required to ensure that film will always be a stock supermarket item.

pentaxuser

 

[DREW WILEY]

Based on what's happening locally, both black and white and color film, esp 35mm and 120, are a hot item with the youthful crowd, high school to 20-somethings. For them, it's cool hanging out at a local camera store or at one of the specialty film + digi labs adjacent to nice little restaurants. But it's definitely "not cool" to be seen at a WalMart, or to support them. Whole different demographic. Just like I wouldn't want to be seen in a Home Depot, knowing about their dirty corporate culture. No, this is not a forum for discussing those kinds of details; but it does in fact have a significant effect on where people choose to shop. Why would a place like WalMart sell anything other than cheap forgiving amateur film to begin with, like Kodak Gold, or something nearly outdated? Even their Pringles are stale.

The main local film lab probably processes more rolls of color film every week than every Walmart store in the US combined sells in a month. Wrong kind of mine to judge the health of canaries.

 

[Sharktooth]

Based on what's happening locally, both black and white and color film, esp 35mm and 120, are a hot item with the youthful crowd, high school to 20-somethings. For them, it's cool hanging out at a local camera store or at one of the specialty film + digi labs adjacent to nice little restaurants. But it's definitely "not cool" to be seen at a WalMart, or to support them. Whole different demographic. Just like I wouldn't want to be seen in a Home Depot, knowing about their dirty corporate culture. No, this is not a forum for discussing those kinds of details; but it does in fact have a significant effect on where people choose to shop. Why would a place like WalMart sell anything other than cheap forgiving amateur film to begin with, like Kodak Gold, or something nearly outdated? Even their Pringles are stale.

The main local film lab probably processes more rolls of color film every week than every Walmart store in the US combined sells in a month. Wrong kind of mine to judge the health of canaries.

That may be true in a huge megacity, but outside of those spots you're not likely to find a lab, or a cool camera store. Kodak and Fuji amateur films have kept the color film market viable. I don't see the pro color films surviving if the amateur stuff doesn't sell in big volume. Fuji seems to be in the game for only for their Instax stuff. That's what the mass market is still buying. If Instax wasn't still viable, I'm guessing Fuji would have already stopped making film entirely. It's certainly been heading in that direction for the last few years.

It seems to me we're just kidding ourselves that film is a hot new trend, when the visible reality seems otherwise.

 

[BrianShaw]

That may be true in a huge megacity, but outside of those spots you're not likely to find a lab, or a cool camera store.
...
It seems to me we're just kidding ourselves that film is a hot new trend, when the visible reality seems otherwise.

I very much share this skepticism, although calling it "skeptism" seems wrong since it's much closer to "truth". In my megacity we still have camera stores, camera repair shops, and the ordinary assortment of drug and general-merchandise stores. It seems that some others live in an alternate reality that I cannot comprehend. The camera stores and processing labs are mostly empty and what I see are folks who run in, grab what they need, and run out. No hanging around like in the last century. Great selections of film/paper/chemistry, though, available by their internet commerce as well as in their brick-and-mortar locations. The drug and general-merchandise stores are full of shoppers but for everything except film, it seems. Those types of stores have been generally devoid of film products for decades. One chain drug store manager explained to me that the photographic film/processing/printing is a concession and not theirs. Given how little those capabilities are used it's surprising that anyone would pay for the floor/shelf space except someone who doesn't mind losing money. I believe the same may be true at the general-merchandise stores but have never asked. I also live near several universities/colleges where photographic film and paper once was available in the student stores. That ended more than a decade ago. In fact, they've all gone digital for both photography classes and labs. Film is taught only as an archaic implemetation of the imaging arts. The "hot new film trend" that is mentioned by some may be quite real, but that film is likely being bought online so I'm not too sure that Walmart (or any other store) is really a very good canary to watch.

p.s. My observations are US-based so may, or may not, reflect the situation in Canada.

 

[IOWA CAMERA GUY]

WALMART DROPPING COLOR FILMS AND STOCKING ONLY SINGLE USE CAMERAS: This probably isn't news to anyone here, but when you evaluate sales per sq. ft., and how much room a full display of 'film' takes up, due to the variety for limited sales of each type, it is a loser in terms of gross sales/profit.

I was in retail photo for 50 years, as a worker, manager and owner, 1968-2018. Our behind-the-counter film display was about 8'-10' wide x 4' tall, and had roughly 45 or so bins. Not all were full, but for practical purposes is was 'fully stocked' until very late in the game - we closed in 2018.

This did not count the refrigerator/freezer full of film in the back room. In short, we had a HUGE investment in film and storage space, back in the day. Being a small store, we had nothing for stock like my friends in Des Moines, Davenport, Minneapolis and Chicago carried.

I was in stock control and logistics in the Army during Vietnam and ran my stock in line with what I learned there, it worked. Kodak, Ilford, Rome Photo, Canon, Nikon, Brandess (accessories vendor) were all in the area surrounding Chicago, so we got next day or 2-day delivery from those vendors, so we didn't necessarily have to carry huge stocks on hand to cover multi-day outages due to shipping issues.

With the gross volume ($/sq ft) Walmart generates, vs our volume, I can understand how and why they may be a good bit more conscious of turnover and profit generation. This post does not surprise me one bit.

However I can say that for a 1000 sq ft to 1500 sq ft store, we were jam-packed with merchandise, not to mention processing capability to do every service available, EXCEPT KODACHROME AND MOVIE FILM.

 

[DREW WILEY]

One of the dirty little secrets is how vendors are often charged for storage space by big box warehouses, but might never reach the retail shelves or walls. It's a scam to make money off them, with no real intent to actually sell. In the meantime, the big box chain might bring in an offshored counterfeit to the real product if it interests them enough. The whole point is to actually drive the original manufacturer broke, acquire their brand label cheap, and then take over that niche themselves. This has happened to not only smaller entrepreneurs, but to some very big brands. It can be quite risky to try to market through them. But camera film is probably clear off their radar at this point in history; perhaps disposable cameras still have some appeal; they're popular at wedding receptions.

 

[abruzzi]

as they say, anecdotes are not data. If I'm worried about the continued viability of film, I'd like to see more complete numbers with a history so we can tell if the last 5 years have seen a gradual increase in sales or a gradual decrease (or maybe not so gradual.) Saying that you don't see people hanging out at local camera stores or buying from Walmart may simply be that a large portion of film buyers today buy online. I know I've never bought film at a local store--come to think of it I live in a city of 200k, 50 miles from a city with 500k residents, and I've never seen film for sale anywhere, so I buy online. @Henning Serger used to have a wider view of the health of the industry, and I'd love to hear what he's seeing.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Kodak isn't investing millions of dollars into expanding their current film coating capacity and training long-term technicians for no reason. That fact alone should inform the big picture far better than any kind of silly WalMart whatever.

 

[Don_ih]

Kodak isn't investing millions of dollars into expanding their current film coating capacity and training long-term technicians for no reason.

Ditto for Ilford. Adox also doesn't seem to be reducing its product line - they have been regularly increasing their chemistry line.

The only thing no film at walmart tells you is that there are fewer casual film buyers - specifically at Walmart. I'd imagine almost all film is bought online.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Expiry dates also limit the amount of film stores like Walmart want to stock.

 

[AZD]

The closest Walmart to me, which is the eastern bench of Salt Lake, so not exactly small town anymore, stopped carrying 3-packs of Fujicolor several months back. They still sell disposables and Instax. Even when they did carry it availability was sporadic as it seemed to sell out quickly with many weeks before restocking. I suppose I don’t understand why they discontinued it. Fortunately I have three other stores with decent-to-excellent supply within a few miles. All are of the local variety. I would imagine their combined 35mm sales volume is far greater than whatever Walmart sold. Based on the used film cassettes I have acquired from them for bulk reloading, pretty much every variety of professional, amateur, and lomo/specialty film is selling well. Heavy on the disposables, Fujicolor, Gold, Colorplus, Ektar, and Portra 160/400.