Street photography in Europe - is law that strict?

Arcadia4 · May 5, 2023

jay moussy said:
^^ agreed.
My mistake was to naively enter in the open market early morning, without realizing I could be perceived as offensive, or at least demeaning. Asking would have helped.

It also feels like people may have lost familiarity with occasionally seeing the random photo enthusiast enjoying the day, possibly also fearing the digital propagation of their image.

Market stall holders are often sensitive about pictures, perhaps because historically at least it was very much a cash in hand trade, i remember my mother getting shouted at trying to take a picture of a impressive cheese stall in the Netherlands about 30yrs ago before GDPR etc so its not a new thing.

So whilst it troubling at the time I wouldnt let it put you off. As others have pointed out the rules are fairly relaxed unless the pictures are for publication.

Its ironic people worry about pictures taken with a film camera, but dont about phone pics that could be uploaded in seconds simply as the latter are so ubiquitous.

Alex Benjamin · May 5, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
My wife already bought me a black beret for our upcoming trip to London and Paris. I'm hoping that as long as they don't hear my NY accent, I'll be Ok to take pictures.

Reminds me about that old joke about Place du Tertre in Montmartre: "That's where the tourists go to photograph the tourists".

Alex Benjamin · May 5, 2023

Arcadia4 said:
Its ironic people worry about pictures taken with a film camera, but dont about phone pics that could be uploaded in seconds simply as the latter are so ubiquitous.

The law in France, Le droit à l'image, which is very similar to the one in Quebec, doesn't prevent you from taking the picture, it makes it illegal to publish it, be it in a paper publication or on the web. What people worry about is not you actually taking the picture but wondering where that picture will end up. And yes, I've seen many people, in many places, bothered by other people pointing a phone directly at them.

Sirius Glass · May 5, 2023

I tend to take architectural photographs and landscapes, preferably without any in the photograph or at least far enough away the their clothes do not date the photograph. Sometimes I have to wait a while to get the photograph.

jay moussy · May 6, 2023

A minor cultural note: As a native French, but now very much American, and, frankly, an old guy, i find most young people here (France) a bit stiff, sadly.
I am used to walk around and throw in the equivalent of a friendly "How is it going, dude..?" once in a while, because I like it, and hey, I am acknowledging a real person.
Does not stick at all, is a bit silly, maybe, and could be dangerous.
Works well with African immigrants, though, we often chat and have a laugh, live a little. Like the guy selling leather goods at the market, or the lady running the floor cleaner at the supermarket ("the floor is cleaner than the bottom of the freaking shopping carts!").

bernard_L · May 6, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
Can I take pictures of the rioters on Paris streets?

That is a Bad Idea.
You are not a plainclothes policeman, but the rioters have no way to know.

Daniela · May 6, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
My wife already bought me a black beret for our upcoming trip to London and Paris. I'm hoping that as long as they don't hear my NY accent, I'll be Ok to take pictures.

Back here in NYC, I often stop and ask tourists who are taking pictures of each other if they would like me to shoot a couple of both of them (with their cameras). They're delighted. I try to get some NYC thing in the picture behind them so it shows where they've been.

You'll be in good company with the beret and more so if your wife has a matching one. There's a shocking number of tourists walking around with them...whole families wearing red ones, for example...it's too funny. I have yet to photograph that...

You remind me that there's also a shocking number of tourists who readily hand me their phones for me to take a picture; just because I have a camera around my neck and look like I know what I'm doing

jay moussy said:
A minor cultural note: As a native French, but now very much American, and, frankly, an old guy, i find most young people here (France) a bit stiff, sadly.

We all have different lived experiences and your well intentioned approach can be perceived as different things by different people. The "stiffness" is most likely a response to fear, not to you, per se. Look at that "failed" interaction: you're looking for a friendly exchange and the other person is put on alert. You seek connection, the other person seeks safety. Neither one is wrong or judgeable. I hope you continue with your friendly approach because it is valuable, it's just that some people might not able able to reciprocate.

snusmumriken · May 6, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
Reminds me about that old joke about Place du Tertre in Montmartre: "That's where the tourists go to photograph the tourists".

Who wants to photograph official attractions when you could photograph other tourists enjoying them?

Alan Edward Klein · May 6, 2023

bernard_L said:
That is a Bad Idea.
You are not a plainclothes policeman, but the rioters have no way to know.

Maybe I should carry my American Express umbrella?

Alan Edward Klein · May 6, 2023

Daniela said:
You'll be in good company with the beret and more so if your wife has a matching one. There's a shocking number of tourists walking around with them...whole families wearing red ones, for example...it's too funny. I have yet to photograph that...

You remind me that there's also a shocking number of tourists who readily hand me their phones for me to take a picture; just because I have a camera around my neck and look like I know what I'm doing

We all have different lived experiences and your well intentioned approach can be perceived as different things by different people. The "stiffness" is most likely a response to fear, not to you, per se. Look at that "failed" interaction: you're looking for a friendly exchange and the other person is put on alert. You seek connection, the other person seeks safety. Neither one is wrong or judgeable. I hope you continue with your friendly approach because it is valuable, it's just that some people might not able able to reciprocate.

My wife does have a matching black beret. Maybe some Frenchmen will take our pictures. When I want my picture taken with my camera, I always hand it to someone who has a camera so they know what to do with it.

Alan Edward Klein · May 6, 2023

madsox said:
It's not often I see the phrase "friendly New Yorkers"...

Maybe compared to London or Paris? I don't know though, I've only been to those places once or twice. Paris when I was 10 years old, so I *really* can't say much there!

I'm a New Yorker all my life. I'm friendly. Always helpful to tourists, especially when they need someone to take their picture and are lost. The thing is New Yorkers are always busy running someplace, so that may come off as not friendly. But I've always noticed that they go out of their way to be helpful. I think we've gotten a bad rap. I'm first going to Paris and London so I'll tell you who's more friendly when I get back.

bernard_L · May 6, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
I'm first going to Paris and London so I'll tell you who's more friendly when I get back.

Sad to say, but generally speaking, Paris folk are not friendly. See the cover picture of Joel Meyerowitz's Where I Find Myself. Picture seems to have been taken around 1970-1980. On the bottom left is a man who passed out and is lying on the sidewalk; the rest of the picture speaks for itself.
I was born in Paris and lived there until 1982.
I had positive experiences with city natives in Greece, Chile, Portugal, Italy, Montreal... Like, unfolding a map and having someone stop and ask if we need help.

Alan Edward Klein · May 6, 2023

bernard_L said:
Sad to say, but generally speaking, Paris folk are not friendly. See the cover picture of Joel Meyerowitz's Where I Find Myself. Picture seems to have been taken around 1970-1980. On the bottom left is a man who passed out and is lying on the sidewalk; the rest of the picture speaks for itself.
I was born in Paris and lived there until 1982.
I had positive experiences with city natives in Greece, Chile, Portugal, Italy, Montreal... Like, unfolding a map and having someone stop and ask if we need help.
View attachment 337925

Too bad. Question. Was it the guy in the picture with the hammer who knocked out the person on the ground? Was the victim an American?

snusmumriken · May 6, 2023

bernard_L said:
Sad to say, but generally speaking, Paris folk are not friendly. See the cover picture of Joel Meyerowitz's Where I Find Myself. Picture seems to have been taken around 1970-1980. On the bottom left is a man who passed out and is lying on the sidewalk; the rest of the picture speaks for itself.
I was born in Paris and lived there until 1982.
I had positive experiences with city natives in Greece, Chile, Portugal, Italy, Montreal... Like, unfolding a map and having someone stop and ask if we need help.

Off-topic, but I've just enjoyed looking through your lovely photos. The Ateliers Municipaux appealed particularly for the Atget-like atmosphere.

jvo · May 6, 2023

I guess ignorance is bliss... I didn't know that using a camera in Paris and Berlin was an issue, at least based upon peoples reaction - 6 months ago, no problem

wiltw · May 6, 2023

bernard_L said:
Sad to say, but generally speaking, Paris folk are not friendly. See the cover picture of Joel Meyerowitz's Where I Find Myself. Picture seems to have been taken around 1970-1980. On the bottom left is a man who passed out and is lying on the sidewalk; the rest of the picture speaks for itself.
I was born in Paris and lived there until 1982.
I had positive experiences with city natives in Greece, Chile, Portugal, Italy, Montreal... Like, unfolding a map and having someone stop and ask if we need help.
View attachment 337925

I think 'unfriendly' is bred by the inherent anonymity of big cities. I have long noticed more amiability away from big cities, not simply in France. Having been in Paris in 1981, and a good number of times in succeeding decades, there seems to be less 'stiffness' now than 1981.
There are difference in attitudes about security now vs. in the distant past (not speaking in context of Paris), more need to lock doors rather than leave front doors unlocked, again everywhere in big cities vs. outside the cities. Smaller towns breed more familiarity with others in your town, and when you know them you tend to trust them more.
San Francisco streets now are unfortunately full of 'bodies on the sidewalk' that folks have to walk around, and hope they do not rouse and confront you...one body on a Paris street is a blessing, by comparison!

OTOH, it seems that Paris cab drivers more often now don't want to be bothered taking you where you need to get. Yet, back in the 1980's they would simply take you a circuitous route hoping you did not realize they were inflating your fare!

madsox · May 6, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
I'm a New Yorker all my life. I'm friendly. Always helpful to tourists, especially when they need someone to take their picture and are lost. The thing is New Yorkers are always busy running someplace, so that may come off as not friendly. But I've always noticed that they go out of their way to be helpful. I think we've gotten a bad rap. I'm first going to Paris and London so I'll tell you who's more friendly when I get back.

Actually, I tease but I have always found New Yorkers to be much friendlier than Washingtonians. DC and its suburbs, I've lived there my whole life and and people here tend to be really unpleasant. Always looking for "what's in it for me?" - even if you're just passing them on the street. (secret insider tip - it's the politics)

I've never had bad experiences taking photos with people in them though, that's one thing nobody has ever aparently minded. Part of that is because we do get so many tourists, *everybody* is always taking pictures.

bernard_L · May 6, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
Too bad. Question. Was it the guy in the picture with the hammer who knocked out the person on the ground? Was the victim an American?

Better wear a helmet under your beret when sightseeing. The Mad Hammerman might still be around.

bernard_L · May 6, 2023

snusmumriken said:
Off-topic, but I've just enjoyed looking through your lovely photos. The Ateliers Municipaux appealed particularly for the Atget-like atmosphere.

Thank you. Nice to know that the pictures are seen and can carry a feeling.

Trask · May 6, 2023

I lived in Paris for several years recently, and always had a camera with me. I took lots of photographs involving people -- no one ever objected, though I may have received a questioning glance once or twice, but I've also had people actively welcome the opportunity to get photographed -- these two guys were anxious to get memorialized!

CMoore · May 6, 2023

wiltw said:
Location notwithstanding, it is simply good practice to hold your camera up in the air, point at the street shop/display with a questioning expression, and get the OK to photograph.
We forget that at times, someone may be put at risk if their location can be ascertained by background evidence...it could be a mother protecting her child from an abusive ex-husband (yes, a close friend of mine had to 'escape' with her daughter so the ex could not find them an perhaps resume the abuse!)

What if you photo shows a missing child that was kidnapped and now you have shown where the child is and a picture of who has it.
Both are just as likely and ridiculous to consider.

snusmumriken · May 7, 2023

Take a look at the Paris photos of @peterturnley over on Instagram. He maintains a constant stream of intrusive but lovely shots. His comments on the photos reflect his open friendly warm-hearted approach. He is a very experienced war and conflict photographer, but seems to prefer to show the romantic side of Paris.

Alan Edward Klein · May 7, 2023

snusmumriken said:
Take a look at the Paris photos of @peterturnley over on Instagram. He maintains a constant stream of intrusive but lovely shots. His comments on the photos reflect his open friendly warm-hearted approach. He is a very experienced war and conflict photographer, but seems to prefer to show the romantic side of Paris.

Very nice photos. I doubt if he asked permission for most.

GregY · May 7, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
Very nice photos. I doubt if he asked permission for most.

Peter Turnley very often engages his subjects in conversation. He often writes about them, their names, their situation. He's definitely not your fly-on-the-wall photographer. He frequents several of the cafés in Paris and has for many years. A friend of mine took a street photography workshop from him in Paris several years ago.

Peter Turnley

Official site of photojournalist Peter Turnley, including a gallery of his well-known work, and information on his photography workshops.

www.peterturnley.com

Daniela · May 7, 2023

snusmumriken said:
Take a look at the Paris photos of @peterturnley over on Instagram. He maintains a constant stream of intrusive but lovely shots. His comments on the photos reflect his open friendly warm-hearted approach. He is a very experienced war and conflict photographer, but seems to prefer to show the romantic side of Paris.

Thank you for sharing. He has a lovely approach to the whole thing. The narrative addition to the pictures makes all the difference in this clicky-clicky photo sharing world.
I've actually shot one of the same subjects (lady and parrot)...the negative is sitting somewhere on the pile If anyone comes to Paris, I saw her roaming around the Notre Dame area. Keep your eyes open!

Street photography in Europe - is law that strict?

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