Street photography in Europe - is law that strict?

[jay moussy]

I was in my hometown, Eastern France, visiting family. It was market day... Nikon FG and 100 ISO in hand.

Well, not thinking, I was about to take a photo of a street merchant making some dough delicacy, she saw me, and protested, calling here husband in, even. I tried to explain that I was into fruits textures, etc, and yes, artisanal food-making. I was reminded that is is illegal.
It also did not help that merchant was from another culture. I showed them the FG, sporting the piece of a paper on back to keep track of frame count (broken), and eventually walked away without trouble.

Is the law that strict, and where is the ultimate rule book, then?
The subject has been covered before, here, but it would be nice to get more clarity.

Incidentally, I later took some pictures of splendid fruits, on another stall, and merchant asked me to take a picture of him and his brother, with everybody having fun with it!

Then, my next hop will be Switzerland (Geneva, mostly) and now wonder if same rules apply there?

 

[Ivo Stunga]

I am not aware street photography being illegal (Latvia), but have also experienced discouraging gestures.
What I am aware having studied law a bit: GDPR idea came in and people didn't read into it and are applying law written to protect individuals from human data trafficking by companies to other individuals. It's a mess of a misunderstanding and an example of illiteracy. And a shield worn by some individuals that like to stay in the shadows.

If somebody is aware of such a law, please let me know.

EDIT:
For merchant to be camera shy and to drive away free marketing - what an absurdity.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

I'll correct myself. There is a general law covering this in Latvia. Kind of.
I'll quote the following article (Google Translate):

Tiesības fotografēt un publicēt personu un objektu attēlus - LV portāls

<p>Labdien! Es gribētu pajautāt, ko privātā persona var fotografēt bez atļaujas priekš sevis ārā Rīgā un Latvijā? Ko drīkst fotografēt un ko ne? Vai ar šīm foto var dalīties savā tviterlapā, Facebook lapā utt.?</p>

lvportals.lv

"Photographing in public places is related to the protection of personal data, as it is very likely that when photographing objects, people will also be in the frame. The Personal Data Protection Law stipulates that the processing of personal data is permitted if there is a legal basis for it- at least one of the conditions of Article 7 of the law is met, for example, the consent of the data subject has been received.

This means that photographing people on the street without their consent and posting the photographs on the Internet is considered illegal. A person's consent is not required if photography or filming is done for personal or home and family needs, and personal data is not disclosed to third parties.

The Personal Data Protection Act applies only to the processing of personal data and does not set requirements for photographing or filming objects. At the same time, it should be reminded that the procedure for photographing and filming in private real estate (premises or territory) is determined by the owner of the real estate or its legal user, allowing or forbidding photography and filming."

Meaning:
In Latvia it depends on what you intend to do with that picture, technically requiring a consent. Sadly lawmaker wasn't a photographer and didn't imagine what this will do to Street Photography that we - humans - love so much. And I mean all of us, because we all love to see our past streets, rendered unrecognizable by the progress, but I digress.
And I keep my illiteracy sentiment: stupid law, applied carelessly. Because demanding privacy in public spaces - especially when there are cameras (security, surveillance, tourists, kids with their phones) all around us - utterly unachievable/unrealistic. Add hypocrisy to this: they themselves will post their selfies a minute later in toxic social networks...

Good news being that I haven't seen it being enforced. The only real problem is when photographing military/state/private property. Therefore my approach is to shoot and deal with it later, fully knowing that I'm right/good.

 

[Nitroplait]

The general simplified rule of thumb in EU is that you can photograph anything and anybody in public view where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy.
That is a basic democratic right which allows us to document things we observe in the public space.

There are some variations from country to country regarding what you can do with your photographs.

People having strong opinions about being photographed is another matter and have rarely anything to do with law.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I'm going to Paris and London. Should I really be concerned with picture taking with my small digital camera?

 

[snusmumriken]

I'm going to Paris and London. Should I really be concerned with picture taking with my small digital camera?

No, not least because there are millions of cameras in use daily in both places.

@Nitroplait has it exactly right, and the issue dealt with in his last sentence should of course concern you. Sensitivity is needed to recognise those types of people who would have reason to object.

 

[Kino]

It appears to be no different than photographic rights in the USA.

For some reason, a minority of the populace has come under the delusion that taking their photograph in a public place is "illegal".

While don't plan on giving up my right to photograph in public spaces, if the subject is within a few yard or meters from me and aware of my activities, I generally tend to ask permission JUST to avoid the potential clash, regardless.

Depends on the situation...

 

[BMbikerider]

I'm going to Paris and London. Should I really be concerned with picture taking with my small digital camera?

There are some restrictions in UK which will raise the Hackles on the back of the neck of some jobsworths and one which is definitely illegal. The illegal one is outside some (not all) Military Establishments, there will be a noticeboard stating this is a site covered by the Official Secrets Act and photography is banned. Ignore that and if you are caught there is a likelyhood of arrest and appearance in a Court.

The others are, some people get very edgy if you start snapping away in an area (public or otherwise) where there are small children playing or just congregating and you could be confronted by a very angry parent(s).

The other is in what you will call a shopping mall which is usually private property and not a public place perse. and they can impose restrictions on Photography. It may also apply in parks run by a local authority who can also impose restrictions. But apart from those there are no restrictions on photography that I know of so long as you are in a public place.

The law, unless you understand the English legal definition of a public place can be quite tricky to understand. There used to be a blanket ban inside Railway Stations but they are now usually quite relaxed with it so long as you keep off the lines. As for airports I would treat them the same as the shopping 'Mall'

 

[jay moussy]

Yes, perception by the 'subject" is important.
In the OP situation, I was paying homage to the street merchant's craft, but it did not play that way.
A few months ago, I was in Boston, near an art college, and I was taking photos of carefree 18-somethings, and everybody was having fun with it. Easy crowd, I guess.

 

[foc]

Maybe a little courtesy could go a long way.
Asking the subject's permission?
Explaining what you are doing?

Look at it from the public's point of view.
" Who is this guy with an odd looking (film) camera and why is he pointing it at me?"

There will always be people who don't like what you are doing and will get on their hobbyhorse.
Just my few thoughts.

 

[jay moussy]

^^ agreed.
My mistake was to naively enter in the open market early morning, without realizing I could be perceived as offensive, or at least demeaning. Asking would have helped.

It also feels like people may have lost familiarity with occasionally seeing the random photo enthusiast enjoying the day, possibly also fearing the digital propagation of their image.

 

[Daniela]

There are some variations from country to country regarding what you can do with your photographs.

Right. Taking someone's photo is not illegal. You may run into issues if you try to sell the picture and the person is isolated and identifiable. People have the right to privacy even in public. This article (in French) was helpful to me. To be noticed: it's from 2016. There may be new rules.

If people are part of a demonstration or artistic event, the rule doesn't apply...as long as you don't try to make money with it...yet, if it's for artistic purposes, you can...I guess...this is confusing...

By the way, it's illegal to photograph/video and profit from the Eiffel tower's night light show, because whoever is running it has the copyright to it. I'd really like to see how they enforce that!

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Can I take pictures of the rioters on Paris streets?

 

[Dali]

Asking the subject's permission?

Asking permission for what? As long as there is no privacy issue, I don't see why I should ask permission to

Can I take pictures of the rioters on Paris streets?

Why not? It should be pretty dynamic !

 

[Daniela]

Can I take pictures of the rioters on Paris streets?

Yep, just watch out for pots, pans, molotovs, etc. For the camera's sake, of course!

From the French public service website:

However, image rights are limited by the right to information, the right to freedom of expression and artistic and cultural freedom.

Thus, your agreement is not necessary to broadcast certain images provided that your dignity is respected and your image is not used for commercial purposes.

For example :

Image of a group or a street scene in a public place if no person is individualized and within the limit of the right to information.
Image of a current event or a public event within the limits of the right to information and artistic creation.
Image of a public figure in the exercise of his functions if the purpose of the image is to inform (an elected official for example).
Image illustrating a historical subject.

Happy shooting (pictures)!

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Maybe a little courtesy could go a long way.
Asking the subject's permission?
Explaining what you are doing?

Do you imagine it's feasible with a street shot, featuring a dozen of random people? We all know people act differently with knowledge of camera being around, so no candid street shots anymore?

"Excuse me, can I take your picture whilst you're jumping over that puddle?"

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Yep, just watch out for pots, pans, molotovs, etc. For the camera's sake, of course!

From the French public service website:



Happy shooting (pictures)!

"Can I take a picture of you throwing that Molotov cocktail?"

 

[wiltw]

I'm going to Paris and London. Should I really be concerned with picture taking with my small digital camera?

Location notwithstanding, it is simply good practice to hold your camera up in the air, point at the street shop/display with a questioning expression, and get the OK to photograph.
We forget that at times, someone may be put at risk if their location can be ascertained by background evidence...it could be a mother protecting her child from an abusive ex-husband (yes, a close friend of mine had to 'escape' with her daughter so the ex could not find them an perhaps resume the abuse!)

 

[wiltw]

Do you imagine it's feasible with a street shot, featuring a dozen of random people? We all know people act differently with knowledge of camera being around, so no candid street shots anymore?

"Excuse me, can I take your picture whilst you're jumping over that puddle?"

Yes, difficut to get pre-approval from all in the shot in such circumstances, but those in the shot are not likely to even be aware of photographer.
In the case of a street food or street shopping stall, the photographer is very obvious to the stand's proprietor, so informal OK of photography is good practice.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Location notwithstanding, it is simply good practice to hold your camera up in the air, point at the street shop/display with a questioning expression, and get the OK to photograph.
We forget that at times, someone may be put at risk if their location can be ascertained by background evidence...it could be a mother protecting her child from an abusive ex-husband (yes, a close friend of mine had to 'escape' with her daughter so the ex could not find them an perhaps resume the abuse!)

I'm pretty sure the mom saw me taking the picture and her kid seemed pretty cool about it too. Of course, this was "cool" NYC. I would think Paris and London should be similar. Maybe New Yorkers are more friendly?

 

[Sirius Glass]

I was in my hometown, Eastern France, visiting family. It was market day... Nikon FG and 100 ISO in hand.

Well, not thinking, I was about to take a photo of a street merchant making some dough delicacy, she saw me, and protested, calling here husband in, even. I tried to explain that I was into fruits textures, etc, and yes, artisanal food-making. I was reminded that is is illegal.
It also did not help that merchant was from another culture. I showed them the FG, sporting the piece of a paper on back to keep track of frame count (broken), and eventually walked away without trouble.

Is the law that strict, and where is the ultimate rule book, then?
The subject has been covered before, here, but it would be nice to get more clarity.

Incidentally, I later took some pictures of splendid fruits, on another stall, and merchant asked me to take a picture of him and his brother, with everybody having fun with it!

Then, my next hop will be Switzerland (Geneva, mostly) and now wonder if same rules apply there?

The woman got her nose out of joint, there is no expectation of privacy and as long as you are not selling the photograph or posting on the internet you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Dali]

It amazes me to see that people are not aware of their national laws but are convinced that what they consider as normal is the law applicable to all... within limits, it is possible to take a picture of everything and everyone from a public place, end of the story. It might not pleased everyone in every circumstance, but people have to grow up and don't consider their own self as the center of the world.

 

[madsox]

I'm pretty sure the mom saw me taking the picture and her kid seemed pretty cool about it too. Of course, this was "cool" NYC. I would think Paris and London should be similar. Maybe New Yorkers are more friendly?

It's not often I see the phrase "friendly New Yorkers"...


Maybe compared to London or Paris? I don't know though, I've only been to those places once or twice. Paris when I was 10 years old, so I *really* can't say much there!

 

[Daniela]

I'll offer my experience of this past year of street photography in Paris, as a white-passing woman with an American accent in my French (which I think it's hilarious because I have a very thick Spanish accent when I speak English, yet an English one when I speak French). I have to add that since I don't like for people to be identifiable in my pictures, I shoot from afar, behind, shadows or reflections 99% of the time.

I have encountered:
-tourists who are too busy enjoying the views/taking selfies to notice me/care;

-friendly cops doing regular rounds in touristic places;

-friendly and welcoming gilets jaunes protesters (I was in one tiny gathering with more cops than protesters, but still! - pictures in the gallery);

-curious French people who will wait for me to finish the shot and approach me to ask what I took a picture of/chit chat;

-super patient French people who will wait for me to finish a shot to walk in front of the camera. Sometimes, I only notice them when I put the camera down and see them standing there. I apologize profusely and I get a smile back.

-playful French people who will jump in front of the camera (ok, that only happened once - picture is in the gallery); teens who will not acknowledge me but do a performance of sorts, and proud dog owners who smile when I shoot their dogs.

-Unconcerned parents when I shoot their kids. Again, I do it from afar, but if they notice me, they just smile.

-I've only had two weird experiences and they were both this week. One was a lady who appeared from behind a column and immediately raised her bag to cover her face. I think she might have been famous...And today, there was a teen with a paper crown eating fast food by a fountain. I walked around and was shooting him from behind when he turned around, saw me, packed up and left before I could apologize/explain. I feel bad about that one.

I'd say that if you're a guy, your best bet is to buy Paris baseball cap, walk around with a happy tourist attitude and you'll be just fine.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I'll offer my experience of this past year of street photography in Paris, as a white-passing woman with an American accent in my French (which I think it's hilarious because I have a very thick Spanish accent when I speak English, yet an English one when I speak French). I have to add that since I don't like for people to be identifiable in my pictures, I shoot from afar, behind, shadows or reflections 99% of the time.

I have encountered:
-tourists who are too busy enjoying the views/taking selfies to notice me/care;

-friendly cops doing regular rounds in touristic places;

-friendly and welcoming gilets jaunes protesters (I was in one tiny gathering with more cops than protesters, but still! - pictures in the gallery);

-curious French people who will wait for me to finish the shot and approach me to ask what I took a picture of/chit chat;

-super patient French people who will wait for me to finish a shot to walk in front of the camera. Sometimes, I only notice them when I put the camera down and see them standing there. I apologize profusely and I get a smile back.

-playful French people who will jump in front of the camera (ok, that only happened once - picture is in the gallery); teens who will not acknowledge me but do a performance of sorts, and proud dog owners who smile when I shoot their dogs.

-Unconcerned parents when I shoot their kids. Again, I do it from afar, but if they notice me, they just smile.

-I've only had two weird experiences and they were both this week. One was a lady who appeared from behind a column and immediately raised her bag to cover her face. I think she might have been famous...And today, there was a teen with a paper crown eating fast food by a fountain. I walked around and was shooting him from behind when he turned around, saw me, packed up and left before I could apologize/explain. I feel bad about that one.

I'd say that if you're a guy, your best bet is to buy Paris baseball cap, walk around with a happy tourist attitude and you'll be just fine.

My wife already bought me a black beret for our upcoming trip to London and Paris. I'm hoping that as long as they don't hear my NY accent, I'll be Ok to take pictures.

Back here in NYC, I often stop and ask tourists who are taking pictures of each other if they would like me to shoot a couple of both of them (with their cameras). They're delighted. I try to get some NYC thing in the picture behind them so it shows where they've been.