Streaks on ECN2-processed negatives

[NewDarkroom]

{Moderator note: this thread was split off of this one here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/ecn-2-c41-stop-bath-via-glacial-acetic-acid.205046 }

Sort of.

This is what he said to me when I inquired after it. The argument boils down to (1) getting rid of the developer, and (2) "my colleagues knew what they were doing so let's assume there is a reason". The extraction argument I believe should be seen in the context of high-volume machine processing, where the dwell time of the film in the stop bath is brief. In a home setup, you can easily extend the stop bath time and follow it with one or two rinses if so desired. I suspect that this ultimately achieves the same stability.

Btw, I also suspect that his wording was somewhat informal and not entirely accurate. CD remaining in the emulsion would oxidize at a later stage and thus pose a threat primarily to the unreacted dye couplers, not so much the already formed image-wise dyes.

Also, please don't take this the wrong way, but as in many, many cases, we end up in a situation where someone offers that "Photo Engineer said X or Y". This always ends up in a bout of "hermeneutics of the gospel of Mowrey" (which I'm certainly co-responsible for) and it only gets us so far. We should be cautious to not read more into his words than their literal meaning. And we should also keep in mind that his knowledge was sometimes (dare I say it...) limited - and he never argued otherwise! For instance, also on the topic of stop bath, I asked about citric acid for color processes and this is what he said:

Sometimes, Ron was just like the rest of us. He passed on what he remembered, informally so, and while is knowledge was encyclopedic, it was not absolute, infinite or infallible.

If I am using Kodak Indicator Stop Bath for ECN-2 stop what dilution do you think I should use? I tried using 1+60 but am getting some green haze marks on the film and I think it is because the stop isn't strong enough. I also have 5% vinegar on hand, would it be better to use that? Any advice would be so greatly appreciated!

 

[koraks]

I never tried an indicator stop bath and I'd be somewhat hesitant to mix a colored dye into a color negative processing sequence - even though the indicator dye will likely was out just fine. 1+60 boils down to something like 1.5% acetic acid. Should be OK as long as you use it one shot.

I also have 5% vinegar on hand, would it be better to use that?

It's really the same, just without the dye. 1+3 would be roughly equivalent to the Kodak dilution you used before.

Maybe your green streaks have a different origin. Can you describe your processing sequence in detail and post some examples, please?

 

[NewDarkroom]

I never tried an indicator stop bath and I'd be somewhat hesitant to mix a colored dye into a color negative processing sequence - even though the indicator dye will likely was out just fine. 1+60 boils down to something like 1.5% acetic acid. Should be OK as long as you use it one shot.

It's really the same, just without the dye. 1+3 would be roughly equivalent to the Kodak dilution you used before.

Maybe your green streaks have a different origin. Can you describe your processing sequence in detail and post some examples, please?

Thank you so much for your quick response! I will attach a couple of examples to this message. I am following the directions here: but did the 1+60 indicator stop bath instead.

 

[NewDarkroom]

I never tried an indicator stop bath and I'd be somewhat hesitant to mix a colored dye into a color negative processing sequence - even though the indicator dye will likely was out just fine. 1+60 boils down to something like 1.5% acetic acid. Should be OK as long as you use it one shot.

It's really the same, just without the dye. 1+3 would be roughly equivalent to the Kodak dilution you used before.

Maybe your green streaks have a different origin. Can you describe your processing sequence in detail and post some examples, please?

Shoot I also forgot to mention that I am using C41 bleach and Fixer.

 

[koraks]

Well, that's a distinct effect for sure. Doesn't ring a bell right away, but my first questions would focus on what kind of tank you use and how long it takes you to pour in the developer?
Also, I notice the images as presented are very low in contrast and rather grainy. This can be due to scanning & post processing, but it can also very well indicate problems with the negatives along the lines of incomplete bleaching or (especially) fixing.

Using C41 bleach & fix is perfectly fine.

One thing you could do is to repeat the bleach and fix steps. You can do this in normal light and at room temperature.

Is there a possibility you can post some good photographs of how the actual film negatives look to the naked eye?
What film was used for these photos?

I'm also going to split your posts off into a new thread because this is not so much about the stop bath, but about color processing problem diagnosis.

 

[NewDarkroom]

Thank you so much for doing that, I appreciate your help!

I am using the AGO film processor tank, and it takes less than 5 seconds to pour the chemicals in. This roll of ECN-2 was expired and pretty rough, but it does happen occasionally on fresh ECN-2 film as well.

I replenish the fixer and bleach, and mix up the dev, stop, and wetting agent fresh each batch. I wonder if it could be contamination of the bleach or fixer with something?

 

[NewDarkroom]

And here are some more scans. The marks show most on expired/underexposed negatives. But you can see some of the greenish haze on some of these. Other ones are totally fine and show no marks at all

 

[koraks]

This roll of ECN-2 was expired and pretty rough

What does that mean specifically?

Please also see the other questions I asked.

 

[NewDarkroom]

I mean to say that it was expired and pretty fogged from age. I do not have the negatives here to refix/bleach but have remixed the bleach/fix for the next batch that we do to see if that helps.

It is a mix of Fuji Eterna and VISION3, i can't remember which these were though.

I will do some more next week with the new bleach/fixer and see if that helps! But I will reach back out if there is an issue, and I will be able to give you more info then as well.

 

[lamerko]

My guess is that there is no pre-bath, but that you start directly with the developer, which may have had a higher temperature. The drop in temperature during pouring is a fact, but the first streams that hit the film have not yet cooled. When the film is dry, those first few seconds can have a greater impact than many people realize.

 

[NewDarkroom]

My guess is that there is no pre-bath, but that you start directly with the developer, which may have had a higher temperature. The drop in temperature during pouring is a fact, but the first streams that hit the film have not yet cooled. When the film is dry, those first few seconds can have a greater impact than many people realize.

I wish it was that easy i do the prebath and then a 3min bath in 106F water to get up to temp before the dev goes straight in.

 

[koraks]

I mean to say that it was expired and pretty fogged from age.

Try fresh film, see how it goes. Although the damage I see so far is not typical for regular age-related fog. It may be simply fogging due to light leaks somewhere in the process. Heck, could be anything at this point; dig up the negatives and have a closer look at those. Scans generally don't tell a very complete story.

 

[lamerko]

I wish it was that easy i do the prebath and then a 3min bath in 106F water to get up to temp before the dev goes straight in.

I see...
I've seen color casts on old photo films, sometimes very severe, but they always had a specific look, different from your problem.