streak across MF negs....

Richard S. (rich815) · May 24, 2015

Rudeofus said:
You write that you go from developer directly to a very alkaline fixer (TF-4). Have you thought about using a stop bath and a wash between developer and fixer?

Sorry I was not more clear. I do wash with plain water as a "stop": fill, slosh and agitate for 30 seconds or so, dump, do that 2x, then fixer.

Richard S. (rich815) · May 24, 2015

Bob Carnie said:
Richard - can you see a deposit or streak on the film base or emulsion.. If it is a photo flow problem it will show itself..

If it is a plus density streak inside the image then I will have to say it is some kind of light leak.. are the lids of the process tank in good shape ?, I have had issues before with this..

If it is something with the camera I have no advice.

I'll take another look when I return home at the film and the developing can and lid. As mentioned I used LFN and not photoflo so it's not that, and this is not from one camera but several different ones so not a camera light leak.

Alan Klein · May 24, 2015

I have no clue what the problem is. But I thought to add a little humor as you track down the problem.

When I first used my Mamiya Rb67 MF camera, I had this thin, reddish line on every shot extending at an angle from top to bottom. For the life of me couldn't figure it out. Then, while inspecting the camera, I found one of my wife's long red hairs stuck in the open area of the plane where the film transits. Fortunately the pictures where not memorable in any case. So we both got a good laugh at of it.

Well, back to work now. Hope you find the cause to your issue.

Sirius Glass · May 24, 2015

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
Sorry I was not more clear. I do wash with plain water as a "stop": fill, slosh and agitate for 30 seconds or so, dump, do that 2x, then fixer.

Now would be a good time to start using real stop bath. That may just take care of your problem. Yah, yah you can use water, but right now you have a problem that you can't fix so try stop bath, you may even like it.

Rudeofus · May 24, 2015

Allow me a very stupid question: can you confirm that the HC-110 is fully mixed in water by the time you pour it in your tank? That HC-110 syrup doesn't dissolve rapidly, and Kodak introduced the concept of intermediate concentrate for this very reason. Little gunks of undissolved syrup sticking to film in the initial development phase could possibly explain those streaks. Note: I have no experimental evidence that these can happen. I am out on a limb here.

Richard S. (rich815) · May 24, 2015

Rudeofus said:
Allow me a very stupid question: can you confirm that the HC-110 is fully mixed in water by the time you pour it in your tank? That HC-110 syrup doesn't dissolve rapidly, and Kodak introduced the concept of intermediate concentrate for this very reason. Little gunks of undissolved syrup sticking to film in the initial development phase could possibly explain those streaks. Note: I have no experimental evidence that these can happen. I am out on a limb here.

First examples in HC-110, second recent one Rodinal. That's not it.

RobC · May 24, 2015

Bob Carnie said:
Looks like photoflow streak to me.

+1

Richard S. (rich815) · May 24, 2015

RobC said:
+1

Guys, please read. I did not use photoflo on the last example I show. I used LFN.

cliveh · May 24, 2015

Have never used photoflow, as deionised water is all you need after wash and before drying. Never had any problems over 20 years.

RobC · May 24, 2015

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
Guys, please read. I did not use photoflo on the last example I show. I used LFN.

I wasn't reading properly, I thought he meant chemical flow but if you narrowed it down to bending film then you have your answer. But looks like pouring chemical into tank with a run down the film which has given it tad more development than rest of film.
I try and get chemical into tank as quick as possible and start initial agitation to avoid that.

However, it looks like you would need the tank at an odd angle to get that line and only you know if thats the case.

Richard S. (rich815) · May 24, 2015

RobC said:
I wasn't reading properly, I thought he meant chemical flow but if you narrowed it down to bending film then you have your answer. But looks like pouring chemical into tank with a run down the film which has given it tad more development than rest of film.
I try and get chemical into tank as quick as possible and start initial agitation to avoid that.

However, it looks like you would need the tank at an odd angle to get that line and only you know if thats the case.

You know maybe I'll try to keep the loaded spools in a light-tight container, fill the developing tank up fully with the developer, with the lid off, turn out the lights and drop the loaded spools in all at once, close lid, lights back on. See if that solves anything.

Sirius Glass · May 24, 2015

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
Guys, please read. I did not use photoflo on the last example I show. I used LFN.

Both LFN and PhotoFlo are surfactants also called wetting agents and are essentially the same chemicals.

RobC · May 24, 2015

I prefer the jobo 1500 tanks for developing roll film. Pouring the chemical in is very fast with these tanks.

Ronald Moravec · May 25, 2015

When you pour developer through the top, you risk this. The cure is to drop the loaded reel into the prefiled tank in total darkness. leave the cap next to the tank on the bench. Start your timer with 10 sec extra time and count to ten while locating the top. The reel is held above the tank before starting the timer.

kreeger · May 25, 2015

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
You know maybe I'll try to keep the loaded spools in a light-tight container, fill the developing tank up fully with the developer, with the lid off, turn out the lights and drop the loaded spools in all at once, close lid, lights back on. See if that solves anything.

Richard, what I'm seeing in your images is a + density streak. In my experience, to see a boost in density it would have to occur during the development cycle.

Do you presoak your film?

I used to see this same problem in 120 film myself from time to time. Ever since I started presoaking the film in water the same temp as the developer for 1-2 minutes before development, it's never been a problem.

Richard S. (rich815) · May 25, 2015

Thank you all for your suggestions. Going to try the drop the film reels into the pre-filled tank all at once method. Although that is not always very convenient or easy for me to get total darkness. As a back up I'll try the presoak as well. Thanks again.

RobC · May 25, 2015

Pre-soak will increase required development time a bit.

Rudeofus · May 25, 2015

I'd pick presoak over "load film into a tank that's filled to the brim with pH 10 liquid - in complete darkness" any time ... a film tank is worthless IMHO if it requires the latter procedure.

Richard S. (rich815) · May 25, 2015

RobC said:
Pre-soak will increase required development time a bit.

Thanks.

RobC · May 25, 2015

I bought some stainless steel developing tanks and reels some years ago thinking they would be the bees knees and indestructible. What I hadn't reckoned with was that the light trap on the tank caps was extremely slow to pour chemical in and without the the center column which the Paterson and Jobo tanks have, the chemical would dribble down the film whilst filling them. The Paterson and Jobo tank center columns take the chemical down to bottom of tank and fill evenly from bottom up as you pour in the chemicals.

Richard S. (rich815) · May 25, 2015

RobC said:
I bought some stainless steel developing tanks and reels some years ago thinking they would be the bees knees and indestructible. What I hadn't reckoned with was that the light trap on the tank caps was extremely slow to pour chemical in and without the the center column which the Paterson and Jobo tanks have, the chemical would dribble down the film whilst filling them. The Paterson and Jobo tank center columns take the chemical down to bottom of tank and fill evenly from bottom up as you pour in the chemicals.

Thanks. I'm deeply invested in the terrific Hewes reels for both 35mm and 120 so am sticking with SS for now. Hopefully pre soak will help! Will try soon.

Sirius Glass · May 25, 2015

I do not have pour problems with the stainless steel tanks [Nikor and FreeStyle] and the Hewes Steel reels. The only reason I use plastic reels is when I am processing film in the Jobo processor. Both the stainless steel tanks and the Jobo tanks have the chemistry enter and leave through the center of the tanks.

StephenT · May 25, 2015

Richard: please keep us updated as to your results.

RobC: How much additional development time for a water presoak?

RobC · May 25, 2015

StephenT said:
Richard: please keep us updated as to your results.

RobC: How much additional development time for a water presoak?

I don't have a specific answer for you. I know when I tried it first I got soft negs but I don't use pre-soak as a rule. I think you'll have to experiment and I'd suggest maybe 5% extra time to start with but I rekon it depends how long your initial agitation time is, the longer that is the less aditional time you would need.

Ronald Moravec · May 25, 2015

RobC said:
I bought some stainless steel developing tanks and reels some years ago thinking they would be the bees knees and indestructible. What I hadn't reckoned with was that the light trap on the tank caps was extremely slow to pour chemical in and without the the center column which the Paterson and Jobo tanks have, the chemical would dribble down the film whilst filling them. The Paterson and Jobo tank center columns take the chemical down to bottom of tank and fill evenly from bottom up as you pour in the chemicals.

Exactly how I came to my conclusion.

I coined the term "wet edge" and the first edge of film to get wet starts the process and the edge needs to progress across the entire film as quickly as possible with no back tracking. The taller the tank, the more impossible it is to achieve without prefiling tank and using a lifting rod.

Sheet film developed on hangars is another case where one needs to plunge the hangar in quickly. That is why a hangar rack is important . Few even know of it today. I had mine made by a stainless darkroom company in Milwaukee. I have never seen another.

The plastic tanks make it impossible to wet the film wrong and that is why they are great, but there are other disadvantages.

I know many pros and they universally pre fill that tank if they use stainless.

But continue to screw up your film by listening to internet experts. Same with stand developing, push developing, twisting agitation in plastic tanks, and other bad advice that keeps getting repeated over and over until it is "fact".

streak across MF negs....

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