Strange development marks near edge of frame

Nikanon

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Near the top left of the frame there is a cluster of black smudge looking stuff. This appears in multiple frames in various locations and usually further into the frame. I cannot figure out what is causing this. This is Agfaphoto APX 400 developed in Xtol.



 

MattKing

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We can't tell much from a scan. Can you see them on the negative itself?
 

MattKing

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It would be much more useful to see backlit digital images of the negatives themselves - including the edges and spaces between the frames.
 
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Nikanon

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This is the best image I can get of this same mark from the negative
 

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MattKing

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There is less density in the negative where the marks are, which would tend to indicate something like one of two things:
1) some sort of debris in the camera near the film plane at the time of exposure; or
2) something inhibiting development - such as fingerprint oil on the film prior to development.
The other thing to consider would be some sort of post-development physical damage to the emulsion side of the negatives.
 

Kino

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Check your light seals for deterioration; Have you ever changed them?

Examine the interior of the camera for debris. Check your camera bag and camera case (if you use one) for deteriorating material.

Clean and blow out these items on a regular basis. Take care when reloading film and/or changing lenses in dusty, windy conditions.

Film is a great static generator and dust leaps to it's surface under certain conditions.
 

Saganich

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My first thought was finger oil as well or just manufacturing...After 1000's of feet, I've become resigned to the fact hat these products just are not perfect.
 
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Nikanon

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It’s a Leica MP, so there are no light seals as in SLRs
 
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Nikanon

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chriscrawfordphoto said:
If all or several of your photos have it in the same spot, there was lint or some other debris stuck in the film gate.
Click to expand...

I see it on films regardless of camera but not every film. It’s always pretty close to the edge , the finger oil seems somewhat plausible, maybe as I am gripping the film on the edge and loading it I do use metal reels
 
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Nikanon

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chriscrawfordphoto said:
If all or several of your photos have it in the same spot, there was lint or some other debris stuck in the film gate.
Click to expand...

Saganich said:
My first thought was finger oil as well or just manufacturing...After 1000's of feet, I've become resigned to the fact hat these products just are not perfect.
Click to expand...

Saganich said:
My first thought was finger oil as well or just manufacturing...After 1000's of feet, I've become resigned to the fact hat these products just are not perfect.
Click to expand...
Ultimately I can be handled, but it’s not ideal. Also having shot thousands of rolls, and only seeing this now and then. It’s always been strange to me
 

DareFail

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Can you wear nitrile gloves while loading the film on the reels? This could eliminate the possibility of oil on fingerprints.
 

Randy Stewart

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Not to pile on here, but it does just look like a partial fingerprint along the edge of the film. If you try gloves, and you still get this smudge, please report back, because it will then be a real mystery. Does not look like a manufacturing problem.
 
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Nikanon

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Hello again, I have used gloves and am still getting this issue, here is a particularly good example of the problem.
 

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Nikanon

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On the same frame, there is another spot on the BOTTOM of the frame, and here is a picture of the spot above on the negative as well
 

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lamerko

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There was a thread on the Leica discussing a problem with the density of the curtain - letting in a lot of light, similar to your problem.
 
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Nikanon

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lamerko said:
There was a thread on the Leica discussing a problem with the density of the curtain - letting in a lot of light, similar to your problem.
Click to expand...

This issue is pretty inconsistent, I will have entire rolls with no examples of this. This is on a brand new MP as well. On this particular roll, this was the only frame with this issue, so very inconsistent
 

John Wiegerink

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Nikanon said:
This issue is pretty inconsistent, I will have entire rolls with no examples of this. This is on a brand new MP as well. On this particular roll, this was the only frame with this issue, so very inconsistent
Click to expand...

I hate it when I have a problem with no quick solution to, or no solution at all. If it were a piece of lint in the shutter track slot that would drop down on a rare occasion, it would be much more well-defined since it would be in such close contact with the film itself. Kind of like making a contact print with your negative lying directly on the paper. If it were me, I would load a short roll of 400 ISO film in the camera and with no lens on the camera shine a very bright flashlight in toward the shutter curtain for several minutes. Do that on two separate times, one with the shutter in the cocked and ready position and one after the shutter has been released. That way, you will know whether either the first or second curtain is the issue. If you see that smudge, you know one of your curtains have a thin spot. You then can test again if you wish to find out which curtain is the culprit. This is a far too expensive camera to be having a thin curtain problem, but I suppose it does happen.
 

pentaxuser

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So just to be clear this has occurred with other makes of film( can you say which?) and other cameras. Is it always in the same area in each case and always on or very close to a specific frame. Can you hazard a guess as to what number of films have had this problem in terms of the total number of films you have shot? Can you also say over what time period this has occurred i.e ever since you started with film or much more recently such as the last four months?

Since you first raised the problem you appear to have been able to eliminate finger prints as the cause so have you tried all the other remedies that have been suggested?

pentaxuser
 
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