strange acros

Will Ridgway · Apr 29, 2018

Has anyone ever developed b+w negatives, when washing them the water has come out slightly pink, and when looking at the negatives the violet cast has faded somewhat, with some patchy spots being completely clear, yet the exposures haven't been affected? What's gone wrong!?? (Acros @ 100 dev in Rodinal 1:25 6m 30s). - only happened with acros on three rolls now...

RattyMouse · Apr 29, 2018

Will Ridgway said:
Has anyone ever developed b+w negatives, when washing them the water has come out slightly pink, and when looking at the negatives the violet cast has faded somewhat, with some patchy spots being completely clear, yet the exposures haven't been affected? What's gone wrong!?? (Acros @ 100 dev in Rodinal 1:25 6m 30s). - only happened with acros on three rolls now...

Welcome to Phototrio.

Acros wash water always comes out pink at first. I wash Acros continuously until the wash water is clear. The fixer comes out with a deeply pink color too. This fades away over the course of a few minutes.

Will Ridgway · Apr 29, 2018

Thankyou!
The negs aren't streaky, but have variations in the levels of violet and are in places, clear. It's patchy, why could this be?
Do you think I should re-fix and wash them?
Also, is it normal for acros negatives to seem very grey?

RattyMouse · Apr 29, 2018

Will Ridgway said:
Thankyou!
The negs aren't streaky, but have variations in the levels of violet and are in places, clear. It's patchy, why could this be?
Do you think I should re-fix and wash them?
Also, is it normal for acros negatives to seem very grey?

I think you need more washing to remove the pink color. I wash Acros film extensively until the water drains colorless. At the beginning of the wash, the drained water is VERY pink.

Acros negatives are grey.

RJ- · Apr 29, 2018

Hi Will,

That's your anti-halation layer coming out post-development as the fluo-pink dye.

Have you tested your fixer's capabilities to make sure it's not inadequate? Even if it hasn't, cold tap water rinse washing sometimes locks in the dye, even if you agitate wash vigorously. Wash at the same temperature range as development if you can. If you're using a fixer like Hypam [Ilford], it tends to be more prone than Rapid Fix [Ilford] and you might have to do what I do, and resort to a two-bath fixer method, preceding the fixer with a hyposulphite bath.

Depending on which negatives you're used to reading, Fuji Acros can seem strangely bland as a negative. It does have a grey base (most films do: some reversal ready films like Rollei RPX25 are clear).

RJ

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 29, 2018

I always give Acros negatives a good soaking for about a half hour, then dump the very pink water, and let sit again for another half hour. And even after that, there's still a bit of pink. This film just leaches the stuff! So, I just keep changing water and soaking until it's all gone. I don't leave film in running water. Such a waste.

mshchem · Apr 29, 2018

Does a pre soak before development help ? I remember, I think it was a Kodak Portra, that I was pre rinsing to warm up the tank I was shocked at the amount of pink anti halation dye present. I'm sure Fuji spared nothing in Acros. If there's a dye between the emulsion and the base, which is the most effective, it would make sense that it's stubborn .

lantau · Apr 30, 2018

Strange that you are having problems. Rodinal is usually very good in extracting anti halation dyes. I use 1+50 and the corresponding longer dev times, but I don't expect this to make a difference.

It's been a few months since my last roll of Acros, I love it dearly but it is not my main 100. It's also expensive in my market. But looking at my negatives they are clean without a trace of dye. Couldn't say the same about Tri-X and HP5+ (Unless developed in Rodinal, the results of which I don't like).

pentaxuser · Apr 30, 2018

It wasn't strange acros I experienced but "stranger across." I saw her across a crowded room some enchanted evening in the South Pacific. Just a little levity for a gloomy Monday morning

RattyMouse · Apr 30, 2018

I dont think the pink color is the anti halation dye. HC-110 goes into the tank clear and after developing comes out a bluish green. That is the anti halation dye. When the fix is done (using Ilford Rapid fixer in my case), it comes out VERY pink. I pour it into my beaker and then begin washing the film. The pink fluid turns perfectly clear in less than 2 minutes. There is no sign at all of any pink color once I return the fixer to it's storage bottle.

I dont know what that color is but I do not think it is a dye. There's some sort of complexing reaction going on. A dye would be far more stable.

RJ- · Apr 30, 2018

mshchem said:
Does a pre soak before development help ?

Yes, this is standard practice for consistent film adsorption prior to immersion in the developer. However it won't stop the anti-halation dye leaching out, if the cold water rinse induces a temperature extreme and emulsion contraction, leading to a lock down of the anti-halation layer in the fixed negative roll.

References which are interesting for anti-halation layer leaching. Not all anti-halation dyes are the same colour - green, blue, hue, tints of indigo - depending on which film. For Fuji Acros, the dye is specifically fluo-pink.

https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/pink-purple-drips-from-acros-100-4x5.135411/
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.u...-developing-pink-die-came-off-the-film.55555/
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-69300.html
https://www.flickr.com/groups/67377471@N00/discuss/72157627179942811/

RJ

Photo Engineer · Apr 30, 2018

Please note my response in that PN thread. It gives the exact sources of the stains.

PE

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 30, 2018

Thanks PE. That makes a lot of sense.

Will Ridgway · Apr 30, 2018

I soaked the film and washed it extensively, yet the result was still the same. What else could I try?

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 30, 2018

As I said in your thread... are you sure the emulsion isn't touching each other on the reel during development? Did you try fixing it again? Dip and dunk it in some fixer to see if that helps.

Gerald C Koch · Apr 30, 2018

Welcome to PHOTRIO.There is a sticky thread which addresses this problem.

NedL · Apr 30, 2018

Andrew O'Neill said:
I always give Acros negatives a good soaking for about a half hour, then dump the very pink water, and let sit again for another half hour. And even after that, there's still a bit of pink. This film just leaches the stuff! So, I just keep changing water and soaking until it's all gone. I don't leave film in running water. Such a waste.

Same here. A couple good long soaks before the photo-flo. When I first started w/ acros, my photo-flo was always pink...it's strange, I think the pink starts to come off only after a certain amount of time in the wash. Never noticed it in any prior step (dev, stop or fix ). I don't usually pre-soak.

Edit: ( I didn't see ratty's response... it's possible I would not have noticed, if the fixer turns clear again )

glbeas · Apr 30, 2018

Ive noticed if you use a hypo eliminator, I use Heico Permawash, the color disappears at that point. My Across negs are always nice and clear toned, no tints. Looking at the picture you posted though it looks like your fixer is not doing its job from the mottling and the edges. Do check how the film is wound on the reel.

MattKing · Apr 30, 2018

glbeas said:
Ive noticed if you use a hypo eliminator, I use Heico Permawash, the color disappears at that point.

For clarity, rather than the term "hypo eliminator" look for products described by the more generic term "wash-aid" or the Kodak term "hypo clearing agent".
Historically, there were "hypo eliminators" but they are now known to be a bad idea. The wash-aids like Heico Permawash reduce the level of fixer residue to the extremely low levels that turn out to be best for the film.

mnemosyne · May 1, 2018

The TO has decided to open a second thread on the same topic here, where it turns out he used Ilford Rapid fixer undiluted at "room temperature", so this appears to be a fixing failure.

markjwyatt · May 1, 2018

I admit I have not developed film for a while. It looks like people are not using stop bath (acetic acid solution) any more. Why?

MattKing · May 1, 2018

markjwyatt said:
I admit I have not developed film for a while. It looks like people are not using stop bath (acetic acid solution) any more. Why?

Some of us (maybe most of us?) are still using stop bath for film developing - either acetic acid based or citric acid based.
There are lots of threads and comments here about the pros and cons. Some of the discussions appear almost religious in nature .
I'm one of those who do. I like the consistency it helps ensure, and I appreciate its affect on the longevity of my fixer. For others with different workflows, I understand the advantage of the simplicity of a "one-less-chemical" process.

Andrew O'Neill · May 1, 2018

I use whatever I can get my hands on, be it vinegar or citric acid. I've got tons of the latter.

strange acros

Will Ridgway

RattyMouse

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