stop bath w/ HC-110

[Poohblah]

i have heard that stop bath is not necessary when using HC-110 (i will be using 35mm roll film and single-shot dilution). can anybody comment on the validity of this statement?

 

[MikeSeb]

Stop bath is unnecessary with any developer. A water rinse of a minute or two is fine. Even if the film continues to develop a bit in the water bath, it won't matter since you're going to do your own testing anyway to find your "right" development time with your "system" of doing things.

Film manufacturers--at least Ilford, anyway--recommend using an all-alkaline processing procedure. So developer-->water rinse-->alkaline fixer is the way to go.

 

[Poohblah]

i assume ilford rapid fix is an alkaline fixer?

 

[JBrunner]

Stop bath is unnecessary with any developer. A water rinse of a minute or two is fine. Even if the film continues to develop a bit in the water bath, it won't matter since you're going to do your own testing anyway to find your "right" development time with your "system" of doing things.

Film manufacturers--at least Ilford, anyway--recommend using an all-alkaline processing procedure. So developer-->water rinse-->alkaline fixer is the way to go.

What Mike said.

If you are reusing your fixer, a water stop will tend exhaust it more quickly because some developer gets carried to the fix. Water in and of its self does not stop development, development is stopped by dilution of the developer beyond capability for activity. It is a much more gradual process than acid. Some, particularly those who favor Pyro and attendant alkaline fixers, like the gradual stop by dilution that water provides, and some believe it helps expand contrast in highlights.

I myself use a water stop, believing it is an advantage to my negatives, others disagree. Welcome to film

 

[Kirk Keyes]

If you want to stop development, then you will want to use a stop bath.

 

[fschifano]

You can use water if you like. No harm in it. No harm in using stop bath either, so it's your choice. If you do use water, make it a few changes of water to remove as much developer as possible before introducing fixer.

People using pyro and other staining types of developers do so because they want the staining effect of the developer to aid in highlight definition and grain masking. Acid, in the stop or fix, will inhibit the stain.

Ilford's rapid fixer is acidic. When mixed to working strength, it should have a ph of 5.5 to 5. See page 1 this document:http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2006130218312091.pdf

 

[JBrunner]

People using pyro and other staining types of developers do so because they want the staining effect of the developer to aid in highlight definition and grain masking. Acid, in the stop or fix, will inhibit the stain.

Should have added that what Frank has written is the primary reason I started to use a water stop, but I didn't think to as it doesn't really apply to HC110.

 

[pelerin]

i assume ilford rapid fix is an alkaline fixer?

Hi,
The msds only gives the ph for the concentrate, (5.1) which is is well below alkaline.
Celac

 

[Neal]

Dear Poohblah,

If you are using an acid fixer (I think all Kodak or Ilford are acid fixers), using a stop bath will (based on Kodak data sheets) increase the life of the fixer. I've inferred from what I've read that a stop bath helps prevent carryover from the (alkaline) developer which would change the ph of the fixer.

Neal Wydra

 

[Lowell Huff]

Since you are using "one shot" technique, there is no logic for preserving fixer life. We have recommended for years there is no need for stop bath or fixer hardener, especially with an acid fix.

 

[Poohblah]

right. okay. thanks. you guys are awesome.

 

[2F/2F]

It doesn't really have anything to do with the fact that it is HC-110. You can choose to use a stop bath or not with most run-of-the-mill developers.

I do use a stop bath, because I stretch my fixer to save money and reduce the amount of waste materials that I must deal with. (I also find that it makes printing on fiber paper more consistent, but strangely has little effect on film.) Despite most people's recommendations that I simply dump my fixer down the drain, I still save it and take it to the local CC, where they send it out for recycling. So, making it last does count to me, because I don't like it sitting around here in large amounts.

If you plan on using your fixer one shot, I would just rinse the film after development and then fix. One less thing to measure out, and it is a very nasty concentrate to be dealing with and have around the house if you don't really need it. An accidental whiff almost knocked me out one time (reached down next to the sink to pick up my measuring syringe and put my nose right into the bottle, which was sitting on the sink), and once when I got some on my fingers, the skin all died and got totally numb for a few days, then flaked off over the next two weeks. Godforbid it should ever splash in your eye! I always wear eye protection whenever there is any of the concentrate open or being mixed.

 

[Kirk Keyes]

People using pyro and other staining types of developers do so because they want the staining effect of the developer to aid in highlight definition and grain masking. Acid, in the stop or fix, will inhibit the stain.

Have you compared stop bath vs water bath with pyro developers, or are you just repeating urban legend?

I developed 2 sheets of 4x5 in PMK with try processing, both exposed to a step wedge. The sheets were processed side by side and at the end of the development time, one went into Kodak Indicator stop - prepared as in the instructions, the other into a water bath. I left both in their respective baths for 1 minute, and then they both went into the same bath of fixer, and they were washed together. After drying, the densities of the steps were measured. There was a slight difference in density on nearly every step - about 0.02 more density on the water bath neg.

This demonstrated to me, there is no loss of stain when using a stop bath with pyro-developed negatives.

 

[CBG]

... I still save it and take it to the local CC ...

I'm drawing a blank, what's a "CC"?

... and it is a very nasty concentrate to be dealing with ...

What sort of stop bath are you using? I never had such strong reactions. Come to think of it, I never had any reaction to stop bath.

C

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

To CBG,

I think 2F/2F is referring to Kodak Indicator stop bath, but who knows. Either way, if you want to experience something nasty (don't take that as advice to do it, because it is not a good idea), wedge your nose up to a bottle of Kodak Indicator stop bath, concentrated. It made me throw up, that's how violent it smells. I did it by mistake too...

I've used water stop bath for a long time, as I prefer the stopping action to be fast. I have a problem with pouring stop bath into a film developing tank where it doesn't reach all of the film at the same time. Since it stops development instantly, I am a little bit afraid of uneven densities in the negative. That is not based on any scientific fact at all, it's just my stupid fear of it. But water has worked great. Still does. Pyro or standard developer. HC-110 or others.

- Thomas

 

[2F/2F]

Hi, CBG.

By CC I meant community college.

I am using Kodak indicator stop. The concentrate is some heavy stuff. (Working solution is not bad at all. It actually makes some of the world's best glass cleaner!)

I will switch to Ilford eventually, as I have done with all my other chemicals, but stop bath and Photo-Flo concentrates last so darned long that it will be years before that happens...both Kodak and Ilford will probably be out of business by then...heh heh.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Post above should read that I prefer the stopping action to be slow, not fast. I confused myself and y'all for no good reason.

Sorry about that.

- Thomas