This thread gives a whole new dimension to the phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Which, by the way, is the reason I'll keep going on with my 30 seconds of Ilfostop.
There's also the flip side of that coin, which is "if it ain't necessary then why do it?"
Stuff I learned here from others. I have never had the problem, but then I use Kodak film, Ilford film and Rollei IR 400 and not the post Soviet manufacturer. I also mix chemicals to the manufacturers' specifications.
I like that.That reminds me there was once a young homemaker named Alice whose procedure for making roast beef included cutting a small piece from each end of the roast. When Alice's very young and curious daughter asked why remove the ends of the roast Alice replied that she learned the procedure from her mother, and that she would ask her mother at the next opportunity. Alice's mother had a similar answer, "I learned it from my mother." Alice then decided to ask her grandmother the same question the next time she would visit her at the rest home. The mystery was finally solved! Alice's grandmother, who was by then quite old but still had a good memory, replied "My Dear Alice, when I was a young bride my roasting pan was too short to fit the whole roast, so I had to cut the ends off the roast to make it fit the pan."
Who you calling older?I like that.
Older members will remember George Burns and Gracie.
When Gracie cooked a turkey, she put a large and a small one in the oven together.
Her idea was, when the small turkey was burnt, the big one was done.
Who you calling older?
Say Goodnight Gracie.
Water Vs. stop bath and film development
In the last couple of months, I've seen odd density variations in my Plus-X and FP4+. On the long edges of each frame is a subtle area of increased density which runs the lenght of the frame.
I develop in a steel tank with steel reels of course. For the last couple of years I've been using water as a stop bath as I was told I risk pinholes in the film when using stop bath of too strong a concentration. Rather than determining the correct concentration, I switched to water as it is 'supposedly' as effective as stop bath.
I switched back to stop bath for my most recent roll of film and the density problem also disappeared. There were no other process changes. Is it possible that a water stop bath is less effective in stopping development at the edges of the film where it is in contact with the reels?
(for instance: acids are not that easy to wash out of the gelatine)
BTW, you might remarked or not, it but this thread all ready counts 50 pages...
My tap water is as alkaline as some developers I've used.
More often that is a problem of the developing process
and proper agitation. With a water stop, dilution of
the developer and ph reduction are very swift.
I've stopped using stops of any sort. Instead I use
very dilute unadulterated sodium or ammonium
thiosulfate. The two have a near neutral ph.
...but that's quite obviously never going to happen.
I did notice.
This is also why I applaud your attempt to reach consensus on this, but that's quite obviously never going to happen.
In the States we have a station/network called MeTV that plays reruns of Burns & Allen (and other things). After hearing so much about them, it's fun to actually watch the shows.I like that.
Older members will remember George Burns and Gracie.
When Gracie cooked a turkey, she put a large and a small one in the oven together.
Her idea was, when the small turkey was burnt, the big one was done.
What is now the most important purpose of the stop bath (regardless what kind of composition) and why?
- stopping the development
- changing/adapting the pH
- washing away the leftover of the developer and/or to prevent a carryover
- creating an environment for better fixing
- regulating/influencing the further processing (for instance: acids are not that easy to wash out of the gelatine)
PS: I am not particularly asking which one is the best...
water is definately less effective in stopping the development action than stop bath. Not sure that this fact explains the density issue at the film edgethough.
<SNIP>
The time difference is something that could be easily determined by a few experiments. However, that's not even necessary if one is determining a personal film speed. One would simply go through that whole process of determining a personal film speed (of developing for different times) using water as a stop bath in exactly the same way as one would determine personal film speed using an acid stop bath, and the preferred development time will come out in the end without ever needing to do a comparison between acid stop vs. neutral stop.
I still think you and I were twins separated at birth.To serve as a never-ending inspiration for Photrio posts.
I still think you and I were twins separated at birth.
So Alan,
What about optimizing process capacity and helping minimize time and fixer waste.
Are those valid reasons to use stop bath?
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