Stop Bath.. How important?

[hrst]

I lolled at "less complexity" and "less hassle".

Steve, so true.....

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Thanks for the tip. I'll start using stop bath for film processing. I currently use it for print processing, but is it OK to use the same stop bath for print and film processing?

 

[bblhed]

I will start with the disclaimer that I do not use stop bath, I use straight cold water from a tap and that is good enough for me and what I'm doing.I am just shooting for fun, and yes my negatives are all over the place, dark, light, thin, purple, but I really don't care as long as I can get a print from them I'm happy.

If you truly want to have consistent results you need to remove as many variables as you can. That includes maintaining temperature, using the same water for everything, and keeping track of all times. Yes it is easy to get images to show up on a negative, but to get them to show up the same way every time takes a lot of precise control. You can use straight water as a stop bath, and still maintain this control, but you will need a lot of it and you will have to keep it in a tank, and when the tank is empty and you refill it your results may change and you will have to adjust for that. Unless you have a water treatment set up at your home that can ensure that your water is the same every time, or you don't care about things being the same every time, use the stop bath and distiled water for everything.

There are some people that get enjoyment from taking total control of the process and their reward is being able to take a photo, process it, and print it and know exactly how it will turn out. There are also professionals that need to have a print turn out the same every time. I'm neither of those, but if you are, use stop bath.

Even the worst photo processing places treat their water before using it, there is a reason for that.

 

[BetterSense]

I currently use it for print processing, but is it OK to use the same stop bath for print and film processing?

I wouldn't. Chemicals used for paper always end up with a lot of junk in them from being used in trays, like bits of paper, that you don't want adhering to your film.

 

[photomc]

If you can't tell if water or stop bath was used in the final print, what difference does it make? We all have our own ways of working, if using 'eye of newt' gave me negatives that printed the way I wanted them to, I would use it.

 

[fschifano]

Thanks for the tip. I'll start using stop bath for film processing. I currently use it for print processing, but is it OK to use the same stop bath for print and film processing?

I would not, and for the same reasons put forth by BetterSense. Chemistry used for paper picks up an awful lot of detritus while sitting out in the tray. Lint, dust, sometimes even small insects find their way into the tray. None of this matters a whit to a print, but you don't want that crud anywhere near your film. Chances are good that once you wash the film thoroughly, none of the detritus will remain; but why risk it?

 

[Q.G.]

Yes, you can measure it till about 8-10 minutes developing time. So if you're going on consistensy you could make the decision for developing times till 10 minutes with a stop and above without a stop.

When having 4x water change you also need water on the same temperature. Just when using a stop all chemicals should be already on the same temperature. So your process is less complicated too unless you want to run in unwanted reticulation on a certain moment.

You know, i have never tried to be that precise with wash, stop nor fix temperatures, and have yet to see reticulation.
In other words: yes, it is quite possible to be too anal (yes, as if being anal about something isn't bad enough already ) about things.

 

[David Brown]

this thread is hilarious ... :munch:

 

[ToddB]

Ok guys,

how important is using stop bath in paper developing? Before answering.. Here is what I do. Dektol, two fixer baths, per-wash, wash, sel tone and final bath. I figured two fixer baths would be ok. Is there a added benefit to stop bath?

ToddB

 

[MattKing]

Are you printing on RC or fibre based paper?

Besides that question, I would ask how much capacity you are looking for from your fixer? Stop bath extends the capacity of neutral or acidic fixers.

Stop bath also stops development quite quickly, which will aid you are trying to achieve repeatability in your results.

 

[Bill Burk]

There are long threads on the benefits. If you use an acid fix, then plenty opinions say water or skipping is OK. If you use an alkaline fix, then you will get more consistent "stop" action with an acid stop bath. And with an alkaline fix, you risk turning the first fix into a monobath if you contaminate it with developer.

 

[ToddB]

Double weight FB.

toddB

 

[removed account4]

some love it, some don't
some love extra chemistry to deal with
some don't
some love the "stop" action
some don't
some love pinholes
some don't

some don't listen to BS
some don't

i don't use stop but water
but i might be listening to the wrong BS

 

[Jeff Kubach]

I use stop bath out of habit.

Jeff

 

[zsas]

I use acetic stop bath, because every roll of film or sheet of paper that is not stopped as such, a baby dolphin will die and I just can't stomach the thought of all those dolphins....

Seriously, as fun as this discussion is, OP, you will get many reasons pro/against, hopefully some more rational than mine....

 

[kevs]

Hi Todd,

It depends - if you're using RC papers, you'll probably get away without using stop bath. If you're using FB papers, you might experience brown or mauve staining caused by developer carried over into the fixer, especially on prints larger than (say) 10x8". I'd say that if you're making fine prints to sell or exhibit, play safe, use fresh stop bath (exhausted stop is about as useful as a wet fish finger) and soak the print for at least two minutes. Modern papers don't seem quite as prone to this, and you might get away with it, but when you've ruined a few sheets of expensive paper you'll start to wish you'd bothered using a stop bath! Ask me how I know...

Cheers,
kevs

 

[henry finley]

Use it. There's no reason NOT. And when printing, the "tacky" or "squeaky" feel of the face of the print when it''s in the fixer is a pretty good barometer of when your fixer is getting old. Not using stop bath creates a false barometer on this. The fixer needs to be acid all the way up to the its exhaustion.

 

[john_s]

I used water "stop" for years but from time to time I got some staaining on prints that wasn't visible for some time. My fixer (two bath in a Nova slot processor) was always fresh. Now I use an acid stop bath, not acetic but sodium metabisulphite which I think is more compatible with neutral fixer. It is very smelly (SO2) but in the slot it's not as bad as an open tray. I have not had a stain since doing this.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

a stop bath,made of either a light acetic or citric acid. It will neutralize the alkaline developer quickly and bring development to a complete stop. Alternatively, a plain water rinse may be used.
Excess fixer causes staining and highlight loss with some toners. This step removes enough fixer to avoid this problem. For selenium toning, a brief 10-minute wash is sufficient. For direct sulfide toning, a 30-minute wash is required. However, the bleaching process required for indirect sulfide toning calls for a complete 60-minute wash prior to toning. Otherwise, residual fixer will dissolve bleached highlights before the toner has a chance to ‘redevelop’ them.

 

[Steve Smith]

For paper, I always use stop. For film, never.


Steve.

 

[doughowk]

For many years I've only used water stop bath. However, had fogging problem with Kentmere Kentona paper. Tried it with a citric acid stop bath and fogging not an issue. Too bad the paper is no longer available since it produces a nice warm tone.

 

[fotch]

Very important!

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I use a 1% sodium metabisulfite solution as a stop in my Acufine tank line, because the development times can get short, particularly in the summer as I adjust the time for ambient temperature, but I use an alkaline fixer, so I'm not inclined to use a stronger acid stop.

Let me see if I can find a good thread on this, and I'll merge and make it a sticky. It's a recurring issue.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Eight threads merged--and those are just the ones that were obvious from the title. I've let stand subtle variations like, "Do I need a stop bath with a Jobo?" and I haven't investigated the various threads that are simply called "Stop Bath," not to mention the threads on this subject that surely exist with annoying titles like "????A QUESTION.....??????"

 

[Ian Grant]

Stop bath is more important with papers particularly fibre based where there's more carry over of developer. it's far less important with films and a water rinse is just as good.

All the film/paper manufacturers recommend stop bath OR a water rinse with films, but always stop bath with papers. The manufacturers know best

Ian