steel reels--loading problems

[johnielvis]

OH...main problem I've ever had is CENTERING the film on the clip---must be dead center or you'll have winding problems---easier to take the tape off when inserting in clip...makes the film more compliant to get in the grooves--particlularly for 35mm with the tape on the end--this was more of an issue in the old days with the THICK tape to the end spool--but the 120 tape is the same thick stuff---I just had this problem last night winding some old film I found from early 70's---mean curl to it, kept mis threading it, bu ton ece I got the tape off, it centered easier and more nicely..wound easy after that.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

OH...main problem I've ever had is CENTERING the film on the clip---must be dead center or you'll have winding problems---easier to take the tape off when inserting in clip...makes the film more compliant to get in the grooves--particlularly for 35mm with the tape on the end--this was more of an issue in the old days with the THICK tape to the end spool--but the 120 tape is the same thick stuff---I just had this problem last night winding some old film I found from early 70's---mean curl to it, kept mis threading it, bu ton ece I got the tape off, it centered easier and more nicely..wound easy after that.

That's the beauty of the old Nikor 35mm reel shown; there isn't any clip in the center, so the film self centers. I think people didn't understand them, and later ones had more standard style clips.

I think the 120 reel shown has the usual type clip seen in most reels, but they made two other versions. One of the 120 styles works really well, but of course can't self center like the 35mm.

 

[Arkasha]

Thanks, rookie! Much appreciated.

 

[aleksmiesak]

I fell into the hype of ss as well and after ruining a bunch of shots I'm giving up and my fingers will thank me for it. I have practiced, practiced, practiced for quite a long time and still messed it up. Plus on a night when I'm developing 10 rolls and my finger has a blister from trying to depress that spring a hundred times and I can't tell anymore what I'm feeling it only gets worse. And after reading "Film Development Cookbook" and seeing them recommend the Paterson tanks for their large opening for fast pour and dump which affects my development time I think it pretty much sealed the deal. I really don't get the fascination with ss over plastic. Stock up on reels if you have to and the drying time becomes a non issue. Is there any other advantage for ss that I'm missing? Because from what I've read so far it's just an argument over old vs. new and that's really not worth discussing. Go with what works for you, it's supposed to be fun and not a headache (or blisters in my case...)

 

[CGW]

Amen. I was recently given 40+ SS 120 and 35mm reels, along with a bunch of 4x5 and 8x10 SS racks and holders by a lab-owner friend. Fumbled with the 120s and gave up. Will get an AP tank+reel kit financed by sale of the SS stuff.

 

[Todd Adamson]

I'm actually getting the feeling that the ability to load steel reels is genetic, like rolling your tongue. You can either do it easily, or you can't.

By all means, use what works for you.

 

[michaelbsc]

I'm actually getting the feeling that the ability to load steel reels is genetic, like rolling your tongue. You can either do it easily, or you can't.

By all means, use what works for you.

I can load SS reels, in the dark no less, and I still use Patterson style reels. Even the knock off brands.

 

[Todd Adamson]

Perfectly reasonable. I never roll my tongue, but I'm really good at it!

 

[Trasselblad]

Stainless reels=120 format. Plastic reels=35mm format. The opposite doesn't work for me. No matter how I try. Hewes, Nikor, Omega or whichever brand, all are OK when straight and a total waste of time & film if bent. Just because it says Hewes doesn't mean it will work, if it is second-hand and has hit the floor even one time in its day. In other words don't waste your money, time or (irreplacable) negatives buying or trying to work with "inherited" stainless reels.

Plastic reels need to be bone dry. Stainless doesn't matter. I have found that plastic reels are harder to load when brand-new, but tend to loosen up a bit after some time.

What else? Practice makes perfect. No shortcuts. Oh yes, to give me more leeway and protection against my own hamfistedness, when working with 120 format I "despool" the film all the way to the tape and take the backing paper off (like everyone else I suppose) but then I reverse roll it in the other direction so I get to the end (frame 12) and feed that end in first in my stainless reel. The distance from the tail to frame 12 is longer than from the beginning to frame 1, so if I do mess up which I occasionally do when in a hurry, any half moons or crinkles end up outside any frame.

Just my own little method and tip.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Practice, practice, practice. Start with a roll of wasted film in full light and watch what you are doing, then do it in the dark. If you still have problems, check this ad out:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Seriously?!? Thats what that thing is for???


I bought a box of steel reels a few months ago, and it came with one of those silver metal, half bent credit card looking pieces. I've always thought that it was something that went in the can to keep the reel from moving too much, but couldn't ever figure out how to get it to fit. NOW I see that the film goes through it, and that it cause the right bend for loading.... at least I think.


You absolutely cannot imagine how dumb I feel right now.

 

[MattKing]

Stainless reels=120 format. Plastic reels=35mm format.

Exactly the opposite for me

 

[Roger Cole]

Plastic for both. They do have to be dry but that's small price to pay for the ease of loading.

Another point - NEVER put photo-flow or similar wetting agents on plastic reels. SS would probably tolerate it, or at least could be cleaned with something more abrasive than you could use with plastic, but such material will, over time and multiple applications, gum up plastic reels. Remove film to treat it with wetting agent.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

P
Another point - NEVER put photo-flow or similar wetting agents on plastic reels. SS would probably tolerate it, or at least could be cleaned with something more abrasive than you could use with plastic, but such material will, over time and multiple applications, gum up plastic reels. Remove film to treat it with wetting agent.

oops! I leave my film on the reel, put a drop (literally, like a drop) or two of photo flow in the tank and fill it with water. Then I hold the pole the tank goes on and bob the reel up and down before removing it, and the film for squeegeeing before drying. Haven't had an issue with gumming though.

 

[Todd Adamson]

Another point - NEVER put photo-flow or similar wetting agents on plastic reels. SS would probably tolerate it, or at least could be cleaned with something more abrasive than you could use with plastic, but such material will, over time and multiple applications, gum up plastic reels. Remove film to treat it with wetting agent.

Well, there's why I hate my plastic reels. I didn't know that, but I'm pretty new to developing myself. I switched to the SS because my plastic reels became weird and finicky, and that's probably what caused it. At any rate, I found the SS to be easier for me with 35mm, and just as easy with MF, so I've pretty much abandoned the plastic, unless I have film with a really bad curl.

Thanks for that info.

 

[Roger Cole]

Thats what I've read anyway and it makes sense to me because older plastic reels I have, which I have exposed to wetting agent like thus, are stickier and harder to load than my new ones. Joni explicitly tells you not to put theirs in wetting agent so I avoid it.

 

[mklw1954]

It takes more practice to load steel reels but it's worth it, especially if you practice temperature adjustment and control of your tank/reel (which provides tremendous improvement). The hardest part is clipping the film in properly, i.e., straight and in the middle but after that it rolls on easily. To check for kinking, especially in the beginning but after every few turns, I stop and run a finger from my hand turning the reel lightly over the film on the reel, and you can feel if it's rolled on round or is kinked.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I've been loading SS reels for over 30 years and I still struggle to get them started. When I do get the film started correctly, the film should load easily. I think the main problem for me is that the clip that holds the film to the reel can cause problems. If the leader is clipped off-centered or cock-eyed, this can cause problems. A couple of ways to approach this problem. The first is not to use the clips. Use one finger to hold the film down where the reel starts and gently squeeze the film until there's a slight arch then slowly start loading. Another solution to the clip problem is there are clipless reels where there are two tabs that grab on the the sprocket holes. These reels make the film centered and allow film to slightly move side to side to load on the reel. What I do do check if the film is loaded correctly with 35mm film, I shake the reel to see if the film rattles in the reel. Other than the part that is clip to the reel, the film should float in the reel.

 

[cesrig]

Not to add to the pandemonium, but after not loading 120 reels for 3 years I've apparently completely forgotten how. Could somebody please be PAINFULLY specific as to how they're loading a Hewes SS 120 reel? I can't seem to do it in broad daylight without the film crinkling at the edge once I get it under the clip resulting in a kind of inversion on one side of the film plane where it starts onto the reels despite the film being centered and square in the clip. The only way to get it to start rolling is to push it the film back into "shape" resulting in a crinkling noise and the inevitable half-moon kink. Most of what I read is everyone gushing about how drop dead easy Hewes reels are and I'm ready to throw myself out a window. This is a brand new reel and not out of alignment as far as I can tell.

 

[frobozz]

I don't have one here in front of me but my recollection is that you use your index finger or thumb on the hand holding the reel to push down on the loop at the end of the clip, then slip the film in between the reel hub and the clip on the next section back from that loop. Slowly let go of the pressure on the loop as you're wiggling it back and forth a bit to make sure it's centered, which then pinches the film in the right spot to allow it to load in square. The important part is to get it centered back and forth between the side of the reel.

OK, here's a youtube demo of that, though I have a beef with the rest of his technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwiESmJiP4Q

I load 120 film the same way I do 35mm: gently curve the film in towards itself on the bottom (emulsion) side, out at the reel edges, as you're loading... and it will spring back flat and into the spiral grooves in the reel. The way that video shows it seems to me to create all sorts of danger of finger grease and scratches on the base side of the film.

Duncan

 

[Bill Burk]

I don't know if it's Hewes-specific, but I have been recently using IR viewer in the darkroom.

The first half-inch is critical, once you get past the first tight turn onto the rails the rest of the winding goes smoothly. But, this surprised me... There is a dimple or kink that forms all the time I wind. It straightens out smoothly once it's on the reel, but I didn't expect it.

 

[DWThomas]

I rest the reel on top of the tank, perpendicular to its normal position, so I have both hands free for the initial positioning. I normally strip the film away from the backing paper completely. That can be done in a way that just naturally flows into two adjacent rolls. I then tear off the taped end and use that to start into the reel.

I arch the film a bit, emulsion side in (it usually tends to do that anyway) and lay it out between the reel flanges. That is done to try to help orient the film parallel to the flanges. I then move the film to one side until the end drops off the one bar above the clamp and can be gently pushed into the clamp with a finger holding the tab to keep the clamp open. Once clamped, I maintain light pressure on the ends of the film roll with thumb and finger and wind it on, picking up the reel and turning it away from the film roll with my left hand while winding with my right (reverse if you're left handed).. I agree with Duncan, that winding technique in the video is truly scary! (In general it's all harder to describe in words than do.)

With my Hewes reel, it usually goes like magic. With an earlier no-name reel, it usually goes OK, but at least once I've put the film in the tank and closed it so I could go take a break outside after ten minutes of frustration!

 

[rmolson]

After using steel reels for over 50 plus years my sense of feel has finally betrayed me. So I cheated and got a set of toy night vision goggles .Now I can double check my loading and not ruin a roll of film 120 or 35mm even on Hewes reels.

 

[mablo]

I can relate to the anger on SS reels. I felt like it for a number of months after I had tossed my no-good Paterson reels. Gosh, I was destroying frames faster I could shoot new ones. Then, someone on Flickr wrote that you can check it if the reeling of the film goes nicely by pushing the film back just a little. If the film moves back freely just a bit everything is fine. If the film feels like it's stuck you better go back a few rounds and try again. I've followed that simple rule ever since and since that day I've never had a problem with my SS reels.

 

[BetterSense]

For one thing, I never use the clip. I only use it so I know where to start reeling; clipping the film under it just causes problems. I do use the 'claw' thing on Hewes 35mm reels, though.

Also, you can usually feel if film is spooled wrong by feeling the sides of the spool with your fingers. If you have jumped a track anywhere, the film typically sticks out the sides, but if you did it right, you can't feel any film.

 

[cesrig]

AHA!! Works great now. Thanks so much for the help. I found with some of my rolls if the film plane is a little concave on one side relative to the other gently pushing it with my left index finger from beneath the clip fixes it leaving just a small kink a little behind the tape.