Statement from Harman Technology regarding recent sale to Pemberstone Ventures Ltd.

wblynch · Sep 16, 2015

Vultures want the old guard out. Non-disclosure and non-compete clause are de-rigeure (sp?)

Vultures want the devotees gone so they can slash and burn at will.

Might not be this case, of course. But that would be rare.

Let's hope for the best for continued availability of ILFORD film and products. Especially avoiding price increases.

mike c · Sep 16, 2015

We did photograms and used Dianas in Photo 1 in high school then moved on to Argus (the Brick) and Yashkica D's in photo 2, using Ilford film of course, that would be in 1964.

RattyMouse · Sep 16, 2015

alanrockwood said:
I could be wrong, but I haven't actually seen many attacks on Simon in these threads.

Neither have I. I have nothing but the utmost respect for Simon. He was beyond a class act. To suggest that there are attacks on him here in this thread shows that some people have major reading comprehension problems.

RattyMouse · Sep 16, 2015

BrianShaw said:
Whatever the real truth or circumstances, Simon seems to be that wise man. He has always demonstrated that attribute. I hope we all agree on that.
My hope is that he one day can participate again in the forum.

Yes, Simon was clearly a passionate man about film and once the dust settles from this major change, I hope he can join and be a regular contributer rather than the face of Ilford.

Roger Cole · Sep 16, 2015

MattKing said:
Simon may have been the one most keen to leave - especially if he had forseen how this thread and its predecessor have gone.

Why is that? I've seen no attacks on Simon, and while I've read pessimistic or fear-inspired posts, I'm not surprised by that, nor would I think anyone would be. We know our hobby is one that many people already think is gone, we have the history of cancellations of products from Kodak and Fuji and the price increases from Kodak, now the one we thought was the stalwart maker of fine black and white materials has gone from being privately held by a small handful of dedicated film fans (or at least some of them were/are) to being held by a private equity company. We're right to be worried.

Worse though, even if they DID plan, um, "things that would upset us" we would still hear re-assurances. So under the circumstances I'm not sure it's even POSSIBLE to hear anything truly re-assuring, especially at this early stage.

tkamiya said:
I really think we all should consider Simon himself may very well be reading this thread and feeling quite sad toward negativity thrown toward him. It is quite possible he is unable to respond due to contractual obligations with Harmon and the new owner.

For quite some time, Simon was considered the best representative from any film company ever, and indeed, he provided with unprecedented amount of service to APUG members. Although he may no longer be able to do any of it going forward, we owe him great amount of thanks for his past contributions.

Reason for his departure is unknown. Everything except for an official statement by Harmon representative is pure speculation. He may left on his accord, he may have been asked to leave, or he may have been forced to leave. We just don't know. I'm thinking the best thing for us to do is wish him well and question his reasons or motives behind departure.

Of course, that's my personal opinion based on assumptions.

I agree with the others who said they have seen NO negative directed toward Simon. Can you quote a post from either thread that you see as such?

mike c said:
We did photograms and used Dianas in Photo 1 in high school then moved on to Argus (the Brick) and Yashkica D's in photo 2, using Ilford film of course, that would be in 1964.

That doesn't mean you were doing "lomography" though. The term derives from Lomo TLR camera as far as I know, and refers specifically to intentionally restricting oneself to simple and often flawed cameras. The first film I shot and developed myself I shot in my mother's old Brownie. But I was learning with a simple camera, I wasn't engaging in "Brownography.:

MattKing · Sep 17, 2015

Roger Cole said:
Why is that? I've seen no attacks on Simon, and while I've read pessimistic or fear-inspired posts, I'm not surprised by that, nor would I think anyone would be.

I agree there have been no complaints about Simon, unless wishing he hadn't left constitutes a complaint.

But I expect that Simon would find it very frustrating that so many are assuming the very worst, especially if the former shareholders, both departing or not, actually sought out a purchaser that appeared to them to be willing, able and interested in protecting and building Harman's analogue photography business.

As far as we know, Pemberstone Ventures Ltd. might be full of people who shoot film and print in the darkroom.

RattyMouse · Sep 17, 2015

MattKing said:
But I expect that Simon would find it very frustrating that so many are assuming the very worst, especially if the former shareholders, both departing or not, actually sought out a purchaser that appeared to them to be willing, able and interested in protecting and building Harman's analogue photography business.

Clear and totally unambiguous language about future plans can allay the fears in this thread. The press release regarding the sale of Harman does not meet this standard.

Roger Cole · Sep 17, 2015

MattKing said:
I agree there have been no complaints about Simon, unless wishing he hadn't left constitutes a complaint.

But I expect that Simon would find it very frustrating that so many are assuming the very worst, especially if the former shareholders, both departing or not, actually sought out a purchaser that appeared to them to be willing, able and interested in protecting and building Harman's analogue photography business.

As far as we know, Pemberstone Ventures Ltd. might be full of people who shoot film and print in the darkroom.

That COULD be, but if it is I wish he would pop in and say. And if that were the case, I'd expect him to not be forbidden from doing so. The fact that he hasn't...

Sorry, I've got a case of the afraids myself I guess!

MattKing · Sep 17, 2015

From the statement at the beginning of this thread from the Harman Technical Services team - David, Sue and Neil - "Simon may well continue to be an APUG contributor in a personal capacity however I don't know that for sure."

David, Sue and Neil - welcome to APUG

analoguey · Sep 17, 2015

RattyMouse said:
Clear and totally unambiguous language about future plans can allay the fears in this thread. The press release regarding the sale of Harman does not meet this standard.

+1.

Xmas · Sep 17, 2015

RobC said:
don't know why anyone is making it about specific personalities. Fact is Ilford is a corporate entity and such the decision to sell would have been a boardroom decision. Any of the directors could have been for or against it. Obviously the majority were for it otherwise it wouldn't have happened. Those that were against it may have decided they couldn't work under new ownership and in disagreement with the other existing directors and the sale.
Again the possible scenarios behind it are very many and varied. I doubt we'll ever know unless one of them decides to write a book about Ilford and it's boardroom history.

In the management buy out a decade ago the buy out parties which might have been more than the five directors would have had shares for voting proportion to their funding...
There would have been a board meeting with formal minutes...
Agreeing to accept the PVs current offer in full.
The PV would have provided a credit line to buy out shareholders.
Simon may be on a beach tanning, inspecting his current account and online share dealings.
The new owners may only want business as usual or increased marketing...
They will be focused on the property real estate development like planning permission.
I'd doubt they would want to consider fund a new film type, or a refurb for the 220 finisher.
They might have offered shares in PV company as well as £ to directors to stay in post. They won't want to manage.

We won't know any more about things any more than we know the Eastman/Alaris dealings.

Xmas · Sep 17, 2015

RattyMouse said:
Clear and totally unambiguous language about future plans can allay the fears in this thread. The press release regarding the sale of Harman does not meet this standard.

Would that make a difference to how you buy Harman products?

John Bragg · Sep 17, 2015

We remain totally committed to Analogue Photography, and indeed to all forms of Imaging.Our Product Range is uniquely stable and of the highest quality, and we can assure all of our customers that we will continue to support them in our customary way for the foreseeable future

This is the salient point from the press release. Surely that should be enough to reassure everyone and allay their fears, but it seems that most people no longer believe what they read ! The only guarded language I see is the use of "forseeable future" and no business worth it's salt is going to promise beyond that !

Xmas · Sep 17, 2015

Roger Cole said:
That COULD be, but if it is I wish he would pop in and say. And if that were the case, I'd expect him to not be forbidden from doing so. The fact that he hasn't...

Sorry, I've got a case of the afraids myself I guess!

Confirmed my work email and 'things' were on my work docking station or company server you hand it all back hacking back into a VPN system not practical.
My non disclosure non canvass non anything agreements were in blood to all intents and purposes.

Only Mr Snowden has 'sneaked' Simon may have share options in new company to keep stum.

kraker · Sep 17, 2015

RattyMouse said:
Yes, Simon was clearly a passionate man about film and once the dust settles from this major change, I hope he can join and be a regular contributer rather than the face of Ilford.

^^ That, exactly (except that he *is*, not *was*). Just as one of us (ir)regular shooters and printers. But I guess it will take some time for that dust to settle.

And I fully understand why he is not posting now. Imagine how "we" (or at least some of us) would overload him with questions that he cannot answer. Maybe he's reading, but I can fully understand why he's not posting.

Xmas · Sep 17, 2015

John Bragg said:
This is the salient point from the press release. Surely that should be enough to reassure everyone and allay their fears, but it seems that most people no longer believe what they read ! The only guarded language I see is the use of "forseeable future" and no business worth it's salt is going to promise beyond that !

Try writing comedy scripts you would be good at that...

Xmas · Sep 17, 2015

RattyMouse said:
Yes, Simon was clearly a passionate man about film and once the dust settles from this major change, I hope he can join and be a regular contributer rather than the face of Ilford.

Simon gets A+ at marketing.

railwayman3 · Sep 17, 2015

wblynch said:
Unfortunately those most talented and experienced individuals are the first to be scrubbed away by the new owners in their incessant goal of cutting 'costs'.

Simon Galley himself is already gone.

After a factory visit to Mobberley last year, my wife (who will be the first to admit she is no business woman) commented that most skilled staff and directors appeared older people, and wondered who would have the specialist knowledge to run the business when they retired.

railwayman3 · Sep 17, 2015

RattyMouse said:
Clear and totally unambiguous language about future plans can allay the fears in this thread. The press release regarding the sale of Harman does not meet this standard.

Maybe their future plans are not clear and unambiguous?

RattyMouse · Sep 17, 2015

Xmas said:
Would that make a difference to how you buy Harman products?

Yes it would, because if I am unsure of how secure Harmon is, I am unsure how secure the future of film is. This lack of security may lead me to sell off my film cameras as they are VERY expensive and I dont want them to be rendered useless or too expensive to use.

If Harman seems unstable, I am less likely to stay shooting film.

Harman has been THE essence of stability up until this week.

RattyMouse · Sep 17, 2015

railwayman3 said:
Maybe their future plans are not clear and unambiguous?

Even worse then. Much much worse.

RattyMouse · Sep 17, 2015

John Bragg said:
The only guarded language I see is the use of "forseeable future" and no business worth it's salt is going to promise beyond that !

You dont know much about Ilford do you? Simon used to promise that "Ilford would be THE last one standing" in the film world.

That's pretty clear and unambiguous.

Ghostman · Sep 17, 2015

Companies get bought for one of two reasons:

1. Companies merge or there is a buyout to take out or the consolidate the competition
2. They are profitable and intend on making progress

I doubt Ilford would have sold to a company that would dismantle or damage them or their reputation. Pemberstone are not the competition, so they are not going to drive it into the ground. They must see a future in film.

I do hope that they at least keep FP4 and HP5 alive. I also hope that they keep the papers alive too. If they don't, well then I'll make my own emulsion if I have to.

Change is inevitable. Nobody can guarantee the state of a company, so any expectation or speculation in this regard is a waste of time.

blockend · Sep 17, 2015

railwayman3 said:
After a factory visit to Mobberley last year, my wife (who will be the first to admit she is no business woman) commented that most skilled staff and directors appeared older people, and wondered who would have the specialist knowledge to run the business when they retired.

None of us know the bottom line on the black and white business, but I'd guess the potential for expansion in its current form is limited. Ilford had a go at direct positive, disposable cameras and pin hole, but I'm guessing the turnover is in black and white film, followed by paper.

If Ilford became another Lomography, would it maintain its appeal? Yes if it kept doing what it already does at the prices it does it, no if novelty replaced tradition and quality at boutique prices. While ever the grey beards in lab coats are running things I'm confident of Ilford's survival, but I don't see it as a potentially booming industry just begging for fresh ideas. I could of course be wrong.

John Bragg · Sep 17, 2015

Xmas said:
Try writing comedy scripts you would be good at that...

Thanks for that. I like a good laugh as much as the next man.

Statement from Harman Technology regarding recent sale to Pemberstone Ventures Ltd.

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Statement from Harman Technology regarding recent sale to Pemberstone Ventures Ltd.

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