Stash of old chemicals

[GlenM]

Hey folks. Long time lurker and first time poster here. I found a guy on Craigslist giving away a ton of old Kodak Flexicolor C-41 chemicals and just picked them up. I've got some questions about them. I apologize if you guys get asked these questions a million times. I tried to do my own research first and I've tried reading the Kodak tech sheets but I'm still unsure. I'm still pretty new at this.

1.) The developer Part A has crystallized. Looks like shards of crystal meth and/or huge chunks of rock candy at the bottom of the container. Part C is nearly black like ink. I assume the developer is long expired and unusable, or is there any way to salvage the developer? Can I make my own part C?

2.) Kodak Bleach III. According to the tech sheets, it's ready-to-use and isn't replenished/regenerated, correct? Does this mean I use Bleach III as one-shot? Or can I reuse it a couple of times? (I usually start with a 1-liter batch and reuse.) If so, how often can I use it before disposing? Can it be regenerated/replenished in any way? (Isn't bleach replenisher discontinued?)

3.) Kodak Fixer & Replenisher CAT 156 5175 (makes 1 gallon) - basically I don't understand replenishing. How do I replenish? Do I pour some out and then refill with working solution, or the replenisher straight from the bottle? Do I start replenishing immediately after developing one roll? I don't understand replenishment charts.

4.) I also have and use Kodak RA Bleach Replenisher NR and Kodak RA Fixer Replenisher. - same question as #3. I don't know how and when to replenish this bleach and fixer. I've already developed like 5 rolls of film using the same 1-liter batch so far without replenishing.

Thanks.
Glen

 

[sfaber17]

1. You can make the developer from the individual powder chemicals using the stephan formula posted here. Part C is the CD4 part. I just made some but haven't tried it yet. It is about the same cost as flexicolor but the powders won't go bad on you.
2.Bleach III can be reused. There are threads on how to add bromide and adjust pH to extend the life. Bubbling air into it regenerates it.
3. Fixer, I wouldn't replenish. Its cheap. You should be able to do 8 rolls a liter one pass.
4. The RA Bleach says it is a replenisher, but it also says you can't replenish it. I think it is called a replenisher because there is a starter you use with it. I use this and from what I read, you can reuse it one time, which will give you 2X8 rolls per liter. I haven't tried to extend that.

 

[Rudeofus]

1.) I agree with sfaber17: the dev packages are toast. Use (there was a url link here which no longer exists), they work very nicely (and I think these are the formulas sfaber17 referred to).
2.)I mix something myself which closely resembles Kodak's Bleach III, and you can reuse it many times over. This is definitely not just a single shot product. I run at least twelve rolls of film per liter, usually in batches of one or two rolls per run, without any additions or readjustments.
3.) Again, what sfaber17 wrote.
4.) The RA chemistry is stronger than regular C-41 process chemistry, used in one hour labs where processing speed is essential. Using just the replenisher but no starter solution may not work as expected. For example: fixer pH is critical in colour processing, and fixer replenisher most likely doesn't have correct pH by itself. YMMV.

 

[GlenM]

Thanks sfaber17. I definitely would like to try to make my own developer and bleach soon. I have no chemistry background whatsoever, and it sounds a bit intimidating to be honest. I found an old thread about reusing bleach although I don't know how much Ammonium Bromide to add. I'm gonna need to buy a pH meter as well. Didn't know aerating bleach was necessary. I wonder if that's why my negs are starting to look desaturated and grainy.

The RA Bleach Replenisher NR can't be replenished? Hmmm. That sucks.

 

[GlenM]

Thanks Rudeofus. Uh oh. I didn't realize the pH was critical in the RA fixer. I've tried developing a few rolls with the RA Bleach and RA Fixer and scanned them myself and they seem okay. Although admittedly, I don't know what to look for in a negative. The scans look sort of desaturated and the dynamic range is a little flat. I don't know if it's due to my inexperience in scanning or my developing technique.

 

[sfaber17]

The RA fixer has thiocyanate and is more rapid to go along with the fast process. They call it a fixer and replenisher but I can't find any mention of a starter for it. I haven't tried it even though I use the RA bleach. I just reviewed the flexicolor instructions and they specifically say not to reuse the bleach or fixer when using rotary processing. The process doesn't show any wash between bleach and fixer though, or use of a stop bath. APUG followers use stop baths with some sulfite. I put in a wash cycle in between bleach and fixer also since I'm using the regular fixer. Rudi, do you have any comments on wash after bleach?
Regarding your possibly thin negatives, a common problem is that if you don't pre-wet the film with tempered water, the temperature will be too low due to the drop from the cold film and reels.

 

[Rudeofus]

The process doesn't show any wash between bleach and fixer though, or use of a stop bath. APUG followers use stop baths with some sulfite. I put in a wash cycle in between bleach and fixer also since I'm using the regular fixer. Rudi, do you have any comments on wash after bleach?

I am quite surprised about this absence of wash between bleach and fixer. If you look at US6649331, there is an example given of C-41 process with bleach&fixer resembling the RA chemistry. The process instructions in this example have a wash cycle between bleach and fixer. Going directly from bleach to fixer would bring a strong oxidizer (Ammonium Ferric PDTA) into the fixer, thereby lowering its activity, and it would likely change the pH of the fixer.

sfaber17, are you sure there is no wash between bleach and fixer in these Flexicolor instructions, or did you mean "there is no wash between CD and bleach" ?

 

[Rudeofus]

Uh oh. I didn't realize the pH was critical in the RA fixer.

Colour film depends on specific dyes to create an image, and the exact hue of these dyes is important. Most dyes change their hue with pH, and fixer is the last bath to hit the film that is well buffered to have an effect on dye hue.

I've tried developing a few rolls with the RA Bleach and RA Fixer and scanned them myself and they seem okay. Although admittedly, I don't know what to look for in a negative. The scans look sort of desaturated and the dynamic range is a little flat. I don't know if it's due to my inexperience in scanning or my developing technique.

Most colour negative film, even if processed under less than ideal circumstances, easily outperforms most scanners we have access to. Judging development process from scanned results is therefore next to impossible. The only way for you to learn whether your process is fine is by running test strips.

 

[sfaber17]

sfaber17, are you sure there is no wash between bleach and fixer in these Flexicolor instructions, or did you mean "there is no wash between CD and bleach" ?

Yes, no washes except at the end. It shows 6:30 min bleach III and 6:30 fix or 1:00 min RA bleach with 2:00 RA fix.
I seem to remember discussion by PE about bleach carryover being bad and giving pink fixer, so I even increased my
wash time after bleach to 3:00 so the fixer isn't pink much but the final wash still is a bit pink (with fuji asa 200 film).

 

[Rudeofus]

Yes, no washes except at the end.

That may explain why the fixer container says "no replenishment". I am quite confident that you could reuse Flexicolor Fixer if you wash the film between bleaching and fixation.

seem to remember discussion by PE about bleach carryover being bad and giving pink fixer, so I even increased my
wash time after bleach to 3:00 so the fixer isn't pink much but the final wash still is a bit pink (with fuji asa 200 film).

There are several sources of pinkishness, and bleach carryover is just one of them. Remember the "magenta cast" topic with Tri-X/TMAX/... films.

 

[zehner21]

Yes, no washes except at the end. It shows 6:30 min bleach III and 6:30 fix or 1:00 min RA bleach with 2:00 RA fix.
I seem to remember discussion by PE about bleach carryover being bad and giving pink fixer, so I even increased my
wash time after bleach to 3:00 so the fixer isn't pink much but the final wash still is a bit pink (with fuji asa 200 film).

Shed some daylight on to the stabilizer bottle and the pinkiness will go away.

 

[sfaber17]

Yes, I don't see any pink in the stabilizer wash. I now don't re-use the stabilizer any more (homemade with formaldehyde), since it seemed to cause a lot of dirt/dust on the negative. As for re-use of the bleach and fixer, there was another place where the recommendation was one re-use for each, probably where there was little carryover or a wash was used. Even though I don't re-use the fixer, I save it for B&W since it is still too good to toss.

 

[David Lyga]

To avoid pink with C41, I develop, stop, then FIX, THEN bleach in potassium ferricyanide (3g per 100 ml water). Then, in place into a NEW weak fixer for about 30 seconds. Thus, the fixer seems to negate the possibility of carryover developer contaminating bleach. I have no problems. - David Lyga