Stainless tanks- how to fill faster?

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I wonder if there is an actual problem such as uneven development that OP is trying to solve?

I use metal tanks also and takes probably 15 seconds or so to fill and empty. I've never seen any problem in the end result. I keep my development time greater than 5 minutes as that's what Kodak datasheet says. I find, if I tip the tank a little and aim at certain point in the opening, AND regulate the speed of pour, I can get good flow rate. I try not do it too fast where it starts to "burp."

If this question is a result of reading somewhere, uneven development could result from slow pour in/out and OP is not seeing an actual problem, then I'd not worry about it so much.

I never claimed the OP had any such problems. I said I had such problems. It took me a long time to fill the tank, and that I was able to fix my problems by putting the film into an already full tank, instead of pouring the chemistry into the tank.

Do with that information what you will, and if you DO have problems with uneven development, this could be a factor.

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

When you fill the tank it is right side up. When you empty it it is inverted. All the film gets the same time in the soup either way. I think you might be overthinking this a little.

The first 1 minute of developing has a greater effect on uniformity than the last 1 minute, Chris. This issue is one of several reasons I choose to use film/dev combos with fairly long development times. And of course it's always a good thing to keep up on best practices.

Welcome back BTW, Chris!

 

[paul ron]

I don't get this uneven development argument at all n i have been developing film for 50 years with perfect results.

I can understand if your development time is very short, less than 3 min, then 15 seconds may impact eveness. Hey, come on here, it taskes the gelatin about a minute to absorb the chemicals n get to work.... It's not an imediate on contact reaction.

But if you are developing for longer times, 15 seconds is nothing to fret about and won't make any difference in the final result.

Uneven development?... Dilute your developer a bit.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I don't get this uneven development argument at all n i have been developing film for 50 years with perfect results.

I can understand if your development time is very short, less than 3 min, then 15 seconds may impact eveness. Hey, come on here, it taskes the gelatin about a minute to absorb the chemicals n get to work.... It's not an imediate on contact reaction.

But if you are developing for longer times, 15 seconds is nothing to fret about and won't make any difference in the final result.

Uneven development?... Dilute your developer a bit.

If you don't have a problem, great! You are not the person who needs help.

Those who DO have problems might, though, and that's my point.
I had uneven development problems. And I cured it by lowering the film into an already full tank. If somebody else can benefit from that info, I thought it would be handy if somebody provided it.

 

[paul ron]

And if you read my entire responce, you'd see i gave advice learned from 50 years of experince.

Your rediculous solution simply defeats the purpose of using a daylight tank... WHY??? Duh hugh?

So why are you having such problems?... Might stem from your lack of reading comprehention, no common sense, or you've been watching too much television.

Btw the photo of the pines is beautiful!

Nice job...

 

[paul ron]

And if you read my entire responce, you'd see i gave advive learned from 50 years of experince.

Your rediculous solution simply defeats the purpose of using a daylight tank... WHY??? Duh hugh?

So why are you having such problems?... Might stem from your lack of reading comprehention, no common sense, or you've been watching too much television.

BTW that photo of the pines is really beautiful.... Nice job

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

And if you read my entire responce, you'd see i gave advice learned from 50 years of experince.

Your rediculous solution simply defeats the purpose of using a daylight tank... WHY??? Duh hugh?

So why are you having such problems?... Might stem from your lack of reading comprehention, no common sense, or you've been watching too much television.

Btw the photo of the pines is beautiful!

Nice job...

Sigh. And thanks.

You are really going to call my response ridiculous, even though it worked for me to solve a teething problem? I think YOU are being ridiculous and closed minded.

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

And if you read my entire responce, you'd see i gave advive learned from 50 years of experince.

Your rediculous solution simply defeats the purpose of using a daylight tank... WHY??? Duh hugh?

So why are you having such problems?... Might stem from your lack of reading comprehention, no common sense, or you've been watching too much television.

BTW that photo of the pines is really beautiful.... Nice job

Thomas's rediculous (I think you meant ridiculous Mr. Reading Comprehension) solution is one that is age old... many fine photographers have recommended immediate immersion over the years...

50 years of experience certainly hasn't done much for your people skills.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

It always amazes and sometimes amuses me, as a moderator of this forum, to see what issues get people worked up the most. They tend to be things like: "do you need to use a stop bath?" and "which pyro formula is the best?" to say nothing of the camera brand rivalries and arguments about what film is best, and now we've got "how can I improve the fill/dump time of my daylight tanks?"

Let's all relax, soup some film, make some prints, and enjoy a peaceful Sunday.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

It always amazes and sometimes amuses me, as a moderator of this forum, to see what issues get people worked up the most. They tend to be things like: "do you need to use a stop bath?" and "which pyro formula is the best?" to say nothing of the camera brand rivalries and arguments about what film is best, and now we've got "how can I improve the fill/dump time of my daylight tanks?"

Let's all relax, soup some film, make some prints, and enjoy a peaceful Sunday.

The issue was not the fill/dump of the tank, but to be called ridiculous for pointing out a proven method sure was an issue with me. I'm perfectly relaxed, happy, and cooperative. But when I try to help, by offering a technique that worked to solve a difficult problem, and people dismiss the advice as ridiculous, I do get irritated.

I learned the advice above from people whose combined experience as photography teachers, artists, and professionals is well over 150 years, and them having learned from those before them. I do not throw advice around unless I know it works.

Anyway, carry on.

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

Going out to expose some film now, David. =)

 

[Truzi]

It always amazes and sometimes amuses me, as a moderator of this forum, to see what issues get people worked up the most. They tend to be things like: "do you need to use a stop bath?" and "which pyro formula is the best?" to say nothing of the camera brand rivalries and arguments about what film is best, and now we've got "how can I improve the fill/dump time of my daylight tanks?"

Let's all relax, soup some film, make some prints, and enjoy a peaceful Sunday.

What do you expect of people who butter the wrong side of the bread?

Seriously, though, I am a bit interested in this thread. I'm not too concerned in general, but will be doing c-41 soon, and am wondering if I should use my 32oz tank considering the development time is so short. I expect I'll mess up the first few tries simply because color developing will be new to me, so am not terribly worried; the rolls are "experimental" in that nothing important is on them. I admit my desire to use the 32-oz tank is for efficiency (read: laziness).

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Thomas, I'm not directing that at you or any one person particularly, so much as at the general phenomenon of how the things one least expects to be controversial get out of hand on the forum.

 

[paul ron]

If you don't have a problem, great! You are not the person who needs help.

Those who DO have problems might, though, and that's my point.
I had uneven development problems. And I cured it by lowering the film into an already full tank. If somebody else can benefit from that info, I thought it would be handy if somebody provided it.

I agree some blood preasurs do run high here.. But please explain what this poke in the eye was for?

I'd say diluting his developer will extend the time n cure the uneven dev problem without compromising the most valuable feature of a day light tank... Using it in the day light!

So 100 ways to skin a cat... Pick one?

:munch:

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I agree some blood preasurs do run high here.. But please explain what this poke in the eye was for?

I'd say diluting his developer will extend the time n cure the uneven dev problem without compromising the most valuable feature of a day light tank... Using it in the day light!

So 100 ways to skin a cat... Pick one?

:munch:

Diluting your developer is not an option if you run a replenished system, for example.

When you dilute your developer you have to develop longer, sure, but it also changes the outcome. Usually you get less overall contrast because you raise your shadows this way. You can develop longer to compensate. Sure.

You don't have to use my solution if you don't want to. But it is a valid way of solving a potential problem, and if you don't agree that is fine.
But it doesn't make my suggestion any less valid just because you don't like it. You said it yourself, there are many ways to get to good results.

Daylight tank? It just means CAN use it in daylight. Doesn't say anywhere that you have to.

 

[eddie]

With an 8 oz. tank, there shouldn't be a problem, assuming the tank is tilted for pouring.
For large tanks (6-120 rolls), I use Thomas' method. The length of time required for a decent fill, without creating air bubbles, pretty much guarantees that the top reels will have an area of film which will get more exposure to the developer as it enters the tank. It's almost impossible to angle a tank, and turn it with one hand, and pour in the developer. The film located directly under the pour is going to get more development than the film located above the pour. I hope I'm making sense. In my head, I'm describing it well. On reading it, maybe not so much...

 

[GarageBoy]

Ran three rolls now, no uneven development.
I know the Kodak datasheets recommend dunking the reel into the filled tank
I think I'll stick to Paterson for larger tanks

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Uneven development is more likely to be a problem with short development times or very large daylight tanks, and you can get uneven staining with even very dilute staining developers, like PMK pyro.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Uneven development is more likely to be a problem with short development times or very large daylight tanks, and you can get uneven staining with even very dilute staining developers, like PMK pyro.

Agreed. I normally develop only one roll at a time, simply because it's easier to keep a watchful eye on each roll and potential frames. If I do more than two at a time I end up not looking carefully enough at each roll, to great disservice of the amount of negatives I 'discover'.

But sometimes when I come back from a photography trip, with 50 or so exposed rolls of film, I may use the big tank for 4x120 / 8x135 just to get it done, and that's when I feel lowering the reels into an already full tank will be of the largest benefit (or take the lid off the tank in total darkness and pour the developer into the already loaded tank).

 

[Ronald Moravec]

If you are worried about filling and emptying the fluid content of your developing tank, then consider this alternative:

Use tanks that already has the liquid in them, and use lifters to transfer the reels from one tank to the next in darkness.
This completely eliminates the risk of uneven development due to pouring liquid into the tank.

Obviously you need more than one tank for this, and a different working method, but it is a better way of uniformly coating ALL of the film with chemistry within a split second.

Edit: Or what konical said above.

The preferred method is to drop the loaded reel into a prefilled tank, cap and begin agitation.

Pour out and do stop or just fix. Out pour has little chance of marking film, so only one tank is required.

When I did E6, I used a lift rod and 6 tanks, 6 chem steps, because there was less chance of contamination.