Stainless steel developmetn tanks, what is the attraction?

I am not quite sure if this is not going to re-ignite some old standoff about tanks, if it does, I am sorry. I am eyeing the current Ebay offerings for various metal processing tanks, and I fail to understand the attraction. The owners want a premium price, or at least the same as, say, for a Paterson System 4 one. These metal tanks apparently only allow inversion agitation, and from some old threads I gathered that there may be a problem with quick filling up the tank and discharge. They may also leak. So, what is the attraction? Your opinion or experience would be greatly appreciated. Disclaimer: I own two Paterson System 4 tanks and never had a problem with these, but I am curious if some systems of old may have something to offer that I do not appreciate. Thank you.

32 ounces of developer covers 4 rolls of 35mm film.

Can rap them real hard without worry of breakage.

Steel reels are "easy" to load, unload, clean and dry.

I've had some tanks and reels that I've owned for over 30 years. You can load them when they're wet and they don't get contaminated with chemistry over time like plastic reels.

I like the SS tanks that have the plastic lids. Easier to get the lid on and off.

Mainecoonmaniac said:

I've had some tanks and reels that I've owned for over 30 years. You can load them when they're wet and they don't get contaminated with chemistry over time like plastic reels.

Click to expand...

thank you for sharing your experience. I cannot load a plastic reel when it is wet, at least those that need to push the film in. One has to plan ahead to have some dry reels at hand.

msage said:

I like the SS tanks that have the plastic lids. Easier to get the lid on and off.

Click to expand...

So these leak less?

My four 30-oz Nikor cans have never had much of an issue of leakage from the fill cap. Of course, I marked the fill caps, lids, and cans so I don't mix them up. A #84 (wide) rubber band around junction between the lid and body prevents seepage. This also allows me to roll the tank in the sink for agitation when developing single sheets of 4x5 and 5x7 using EMA methods - I tray develop for sheet film normal agitation. I've always thought the fill-time argument was a bit of a red herring, at least for the developers I use - 10 or 15 seconds out of 10+ minutes doesn't make any practical difference; this might matter if you're using something like HC110 Dilution B, which has a rather short development time.

I bought my first Nikor 30oz tank around 1970 and it's still going strong. It was used when I got it.

Steve Goldstein said:

My four 30-oz Nikor cans have never had much of an issue of leakage from the fill cap. Of course, I marked the fill caps, lids, and cans so I don't mix them up. A #84 (wide) rubber band around junction between the lid and body prevents seepage. This also allows me to roll the tank in the sink for agitation when developing single sheets of 4x5 and 5x7 using EMA methods - I tray develop for normal agitation. I've always thought the fill-time argument was a bit of a red herring, at least for the developers I use - 10 or 15 seconds out of 10+ minutes doesn't make any practical difference; this might matter if you're using something like HC110 Dilution B, which has a rather short development time.

I bought my first Nikor 30oz tank around 1970 and it's still going strong. It was used when I got it.

Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing your experience. So, durability is certainly a point. Also, common development times, especially with 10+ minutes apparently does not put these tanks at a disadvantage. As I am clumsy, 15 min+ development times are my favorite.

I use SS tanks that hold two 120 reels. They have matching SS lids and caps that are marked for the tank they go to (helps as Steve mentioned above). Well matched, they do not leak. I find the SS lids/caps allow for faster filling than the plastic as the SS ones I have are vented.. About 30 seconds to pour in the 32 oz of developer without spilling. A little faster when I pour in water and don't have to worry about spilling.

I will also ditto Steve's remark about duribility. I was always buying new plastic lids for the SS tanks at the university.

Another advantage is that SS tanks allow for faster stabilization of temp (SS transfers heat faster than plastic) But this can also be a disadvantage if room temp is significantly different than the processing temperature.

Some plastics can retain traces of chemicals from previous work. In particular colour transparency processing and in the last roll of E6 I processed (some time ago) the Tetenal kit used specifically warned against his. Stainless is much easier to keep spotlessly clean .I believe it can also affect C41 as well but it is not so susceptible.

I believe that a common cause of metal tanks leaking is that their component parts have gotten mixed up over time. I.E. cap from one brand, top from another, and body from yet another.

As to metal reels, you'll see a lot of hype about the Hewes reels. This is one of the few times in life where real life matches the hype.

One of you should make a video and show me how to load a metal reel...for real!!

Peter Schrager said:

One of you should make a video and show me how to load a metal reel...for real!!

Click to expand...

Problem is that it's very much a matter of feel. You have to develop a sense of how much to "cup" the film.

Peter Schrager said:

One of you should make a video and show me how to load a metal reel...for real!!

Click to expand...

There are numerous videos on YouTube showing how to load both 35mm and 120 film onto steel reels.

putting film on a steel reel seems to be one of those things that a select segment of people just never get the right feel for.

I, on the other hand, have never succeeded in getting film to load into one of those plastic patterson-type ratchet-it-on feels ... it always jams up, always.

Meanwhile, on steel reels, the film slides right on. Guess you need to know the touch.

You can also re-use the reels again in a few minutes -- plastic reels must be bone-dry, the steel ones, a quick towel-off and into the dunkelkammer again...

whatever works for you.

I have three plastic tanks, six reels.
I have one metal tank, reel.
If metal would be this good I would have it in the opposite.
I develop BW, C-41, E6 and ECN-2 in matching chemicals.

I use both plastic and SS tanks and I have to admit I don't have a strong preference one way or the other, but I have a slight preference for SS. Each has it's pros and cons:

Plastic
Pros:
a little easier to load at first
good temperature insulator

Cons:
less durable
harder to clean
requires more chemistry than SS
can't load reels if they're wet

Stainless
Pros:
durable
very easy to keep clean
reels can be loaded wet
require very little chemistry

Cons:
poor temperature insulator
a little harder to load at first

I haven't found either type to be all that difficult to load (although the better SS reels make a big difference!).
I haven't experienced excessive leaking from either type, but I get some leaking from both. A negligible amount.
I sometimes shoot Kodak HIE IR film, which needs to be developed in SS because some plastic tanks allow IR radiation to pass through the plastic. That's not an issue most people are faced with, but it's important to me.
I suspect the plastic tanks are probably better suited to stand developing because of their temperature insulating properties.
Either type of reel is likely to be damaged or ruined if it's dropped (plastic breaks, SS bends).

I switch back and forth a lot. I don't really think about it all that much. I'd say just use what you're comfortable with. I don't think there are any pros or cons to either that would really be a deal-breaker.

durable, last forever, easy to clean, easy to load.

takes a lickin n keeps on tickin!

Though I love my stainless steel reels, I process a roll of 35mm film last week and struggled with loading the film. You'd figure after 30 years of practice and thousands of rolls, I wouldn't have a problem. The issue is inserting the film cockeyed on the reel with it clipped down. If I get it right, the film rolls on like a dream. I always shake the loaded reel to see if the film is floating between the wires correctly. I should hear a bit of a rattle.

I used them for years. I liked the ones with the flexible rubber or plastic top. I could thump it hard on a thick linoleum pad to release the air bells without worrying about the tank cracking as the plastic ones can. I used Hewes reels for easy and consistent film loading.

Mainecoonmaniac said:

Though I love my stainless steel reels, I process a roll of 35mm film last week and struggled with loading the film. You'd figure after 30 years of practice and thousands of rolls, I wouldn't have a problem. The issue is inserting the film cockeyed on the reel with it clipped down. If I get it right, the film rolls on like a dream. I always shake the loaded reel to see if the film is floating between the wires correctly. I should hear a bit of a rattle.

Click to expand...

I never clip the film down.

I have both plastic and metal, over the decades I have used many different methods. In the past wen I processed a lot film at one time, I used metal reels in DYI tanks made from commercial grade PCP pipe, using long rods in total darkness I could process up to 10 35mm rolls at time. I have one deep tank for developer, stop, fix, clearing agent, and photo flow. SS reels take up a lot less room. For just one 35mm or 120 I have small SS tanks. When using SS reels and tanks, I fill the tank with developer, load the reel in the dark use the long rod for agitation drop in the tank, and process in the dark. Currently I use unicolor reels and daylight drum on a motor base. SS reels need to be cared fro, once dropped the reels can get out of aliment making them difficult if not impossible to load. Plastic is plastic, easy to crack and harder to keep clean. If I could have only have one tank and reels it would a tall SS tank and SS 35 and 120 reels.

I really prefer loading 35mm film on to steel reels. I have been doing it for 40+ years.
I can't load 120 film on to steel reels without it migrating out of the reel (because I can't use the clips).
My life is so complex!

In school we simply wrapped masking tape over the cap/tank joint of the Nikkor SS tanks, no more worries of leaking when we inverted the tank.
And as Bill and Sirius said, we could THUMP it on the counter to break air bubbles free, without worrying that we would crack the tank.
If you use a water bath to maintain temp, it is more effective with a SS tank, as SS is a heat conductor. Plastic is a heat insulator, and your water bath won't work as well. But plastic will maintain the temp of the contents.

I learned on SS and find it easier to use. I was the weird guy in class who used the steel tank and reels. Everyone else used plastic.
If you like plastic tank/reels, use it. It is about what works best for YOU, not me.

SS is like a manual transmission car. Harder to learn but one you learn it, it seems easy.
Plastic is like an automatic transmission car. Easy to learn and convenient.
And most/many plastic reels are adjustable, so you can adjust to different size film. SS is one size only.

There are people like Matt who use SS reels for 35mm film but have trouble with the wider 120 film. I don't, but that is just me. They can probably do things that I can't. Everyone is different.

As has been mentioned, if the SS reel was dropped and bent out of alignment, it can be a PiA to load. Trying to bend it back into alignment is HARD. Just throw it away and get a new one. This is the risk of buying old reels, especially the ones with thinner wires. The 35mm 36 exposure reels used a thinner wire than the 20 exposure reels, so if dropped, they bent easier. And some of the cheaper brands bent easier than the Honeywell Nikkor reels that I used.
A comment on the reel itself. If the reel was not finished well, the wire is not SMOOTH. That makes loading film more difficult than with a reel with a SMOOTH finish. The cheaper stuff had the less than smooth finish. I won't say they were hard to load, just not as easy as the reels with smooth finish. So pay attention to the finish of the wires.

I tried plastic tanks and reels decades ago and swapped to SS with no regrets. They don't break and if bent can usually be bent straight again. I find them easier to load, easier to clean, and quicker to dry.