ST-1 with liver of sulfur?

[miha]

I can get liver of sulfur localy and wonder if I can use it to make the ST-1 residual silver test since the original formula calls for Na2S.

 

[Anon Ymous]

I don't see why not.

 

[miha]

The instructions say to use 125 ml of water to which 2 g of sodium sulfide is added and that the solution is to be diluted with 9 parts of water prior to use. Any idea of how much of liver of sulfur equals 2 g Na2S in this instance?

 

[Anon Ymous]

I suspect it doesn't really matter that much, but liver of sulfur isn't a well defined compound. It is a mixture of compounds, not even with defined ratios. I'd say increase the quantity a bit to 3g. While we are at it, you do know that you can use selenium toner for this test, which I suspect you already have and has some very obvious advantages.

 

[miha]

I'm aware of the selenium test, however I never perfromed it. Part of the reason is I don't use selenium in my darkroom. What are the advantages over the ST-1 test?

 

[Anon Ymous]

Not much of a smell in the case of selenium toner, as opposed to the strong smell of sulfide toners. Sulfide solutions also have rather poor keeping properties, but selenium toner is excellent in this regard. A selenium toner solution for this application has a practically indefinite life. To each his own, but I'm quite surprised you don't use selenium toner, it has some very interesting characteristics. Coupled with a paper that responds well, it can give beautiful results. Split toning is another possibility. Even in the simplest of ways, it can increase Dmax and get rid of the olive hue that some papers may give in some developers.

 

[miha]

I see, thanks. Yes I'm aware of it's characteristics based on one litre of Harman selenium toner I had used in the past to tone some Fomatone to a nice chocolate colour as well as some other paper makes. However I restrain from keeping (very) toxic chemicals in my house.

 

[koraks]

However I restrain from keeping (very) toxic chemicals in my house.

It's always completely beyond me how people involved in DIY film photography can say something like this. They're completely fine with using developers that contain hyroquinone, but will balk at selenium toner. They have no problem whatsoever keeping a tray or a jug of spent fixer around for some time, but some other random chemical is for some reason absolutely out of the question.

I completely understand when people say that they'd rather not do uranotypes, don't like the idea of sensitizing a daguerrotype over mercury fumes. I also completely understand why people prefer thiourea toners over sulfide toners if they want to work indoors. But come, on selenium toner...as long as you don't drink it or pour excessive quantities down the drain...

 

[Anon Ymous]

It's your choice, but I personally wouldn't be too worried about selenium toner. Using tongs and/or nitrile gloves takes care of whatever hazards may be involved.

Anyway, if you try liver of sulfur for this purpose, please inform us of your findings.

 

[miha]

Anyway, if you try liver of sulfur for this purpose, please inform us of your findings.

I will! The reason for this thread is a stash of Adox Vario Classic / Efke Varycon paper I obtained recently that is known for putting a lot of strain on the fixer.

 

[grain elevator]

I've been wondering essentially the same thing, I currently only stock Moersch MT-4, a polysulfide toner. As these toners work more strongly at higher dilutions, I'm wondering whether any typical working solution might work for a residual silver test... dilution shouldn't matter because during rinsing, it goes through the highly active high dilutions anyway....?

 

[Doremus Scudder]

... selenium toner...as long as you don't drink it or pour excessive quantities down the drain...

I've expounded on this many times. Selenium toner is easily replenished and can be used without discarding for years. All you have to do us filter before and after use (e.g., coffee filters) to remove the black precipitate that occurs. I have batches that have been going for more than 10 years. Search here and over at the LF forum with my name for more info if you're interested.

I mention this in case the OP is worried more about discarding heavy metals into the sewage/septic system than handling in the darkroom.

BTW, the selenium test for residual silver works well. I use it in place of ST-1 just because I always have selenium toner on hand and my ST-1 solutions go bad quickly.

Best,

Doremus

 

[grain elevator]

I've expounded on this many times. Selenium toner is easily replenished and can be used without discarding for years. All you have to do us filter before and after use (e.g., coffee filters) to remove the black precipitate that occurs. I have batches that have been going for more than 10 years. Search here and over at the LF forum with my name for more info if you're interested.

I mention this in case the OP is worried more about discarding heavy metals into the sewage/septic system than handling in the darkroom.

BTW, the selenium test for residual silver works well. I use it in place of ST-1 just because I always have selenium toner on hand and my ST-1 solutions go bad quickly.

Best,

Doremus

If someone is concerned about selenium in the wastewater, he wasn't going to pour exhausted toner down the drain anyway. He would be worried about the runoff with the wash water. replenishment doesn't help with that.

 

[MattKing]

The concern with selenium toner is, for most people, not the environmental impact but rather the localized health concern.
It is the only photo-chemical that I use regularly that I have special health concerns about.
Dried spills are the major concern, because inhalation of the resulting dust is not healthy.
Thankfully, it is simple and easy to take normal steps to deal with the concern.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I'm aware of the selenium test, however I never perfromed it. Part of the reason is I don't use selenium in my darkroom. What are the advantages over the ST-1 test?

kinder to your nose I suspect.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

If someone is concerned about selenium in the wastewater, he wasn't going to pour exhausted toner down the drain anyway. He would be worried about the runoff with the wash water. replenishment doesn't help with that.

After a good drain and then a treatment in a wash aid, the amount of selenium going out with the wash water is negligible. Earlier practice used to be to mix selenium toner with hypo clearing agent and then toss the whole thing down the drain after the capacity of the hypo clear was reached. This was recommended by Kodak and advocated by Ansel Adams in his books. That, certainly, ended up with a lot of selenium being dumped down the drain. Wasteful and environmentally unsound in my estimation. A separate wash-aid step after toning is much better; the toner can be replenished and saved for future use, the wash-aid (with the tiny bit of selenium in it from carry over) can be safely discarded down the drain. Wash water will have only traces of selenium.

Best,

Doremus