Square Fibre Based paper by Ilford

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Shangheye, Mar 9, 2009.

  1. Shangheye

    Shangheye Member

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    I am looking for advice about how people print their square MF images. I don't know what the effect is on permanence of cutting an FB print to shape after printing (or before?). I note that Ilford do a 10inx10in for the MG IV Deluxe RC, but it seems nothing in FB, and ideally I would be looking for a warmtone paper that is easily tonable.

    What do people do to overcome this issue? I am happy to consider the possibility of a square image mounted in a rectangular mount, but it seems limiting. I would also consider a different VC type paper if I have to.

    Why do Ilford not offer a 10inx10in in all paper types?

    I like Ilford paper and materials and it makes up the bulk of my workflow, but this part seems an obvious ommission :sad:
     
  2. Larry.Manuel

    Larry.Manuel Member

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    I doubt cutting the paper will affect its durability. Off-cuts make great test strips. This is not an omission in product availability - none of the paper sizes I've seen are the same format as 35mm frames, that is to say 2:3 ratio. Paper sizes seem to be based on accepted sizes for exhibition.
     
  3. Alex Bishop-Thorpe

    Alex Bishop-Thorpe Advertiser

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    It isn't offered because it isn't financially viable, is my understanding...only so many people print full frame 6x6, and only so many of those people print on FB, and those that do apparently cut their paper down from available sizes. I believe the 10x10" in RC is for the Aerial Photography industry...

    That said, Ilford ARE open to special orders. If enough people wanted it, it can be done. I just cut down 8x10 sheets, and use the lost 2" for some test strips. You could also get a roll of paper, and cut it down to square sheets...you can get automated paper cutters and such too, I've got one sitting under my desk.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2009
  4. Lopaka

    Lopaka Member
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    Volume of sales would be the culprit here. FB makes up a relatively small portion of total paper sales and is more expensive than RC. You can cut 11 x 14 and use the 4" wide strip for tests. I realize that is more expensive than you would expect 10 x 10 to be, but I doubt they could sell enough in FB to justify cutting and packaging in that size. I use 11 x 14 but probably would not buy 10 x 10.

    Bob
     
  5. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member Moderator
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    Trimming a properly processed and cleared photograph will have no effect on durability, in fact trimming away the edges is thought by some to enhance the archival properties of a print.
     
  6. Monophoto

    Monophoto Member

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    In a perfect world, paper would be available in an infinite selection of rectangular, square and even circular sizes. The world isn't perfect - so deal with it.

    There is absolutely no adverse consequences of trimming finished FB prints.

    All of my prints are trimmed - processing inexorably causes minor abrasions and distortions on the edges, and trimming is the only way to create a neat edge.
     
  7. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Member

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    Just figure out what size you want to print, and what paper you need to buy to get the best yield when you trim it down. If you're doing 10x10 - purchase 20x24. One sheet of 20x24 would yield 4 10x10 pieces with a nice 20" long 4" wide strip for tests.

    I have long since stopped wishing for square paper. I don't see the extra space around the print as waste, because it helps the actual piece of the paper that has the print on it to lie flatter in the overmat.
    And either way, you still put ONE print on that piece of paper whether it's square or rectangular. That's the purpose. Not to fill it all up. :smile:
    As a matter of fact, often when I print an 8x8" or so I'll use 11x14 paper. I always have a border on my prints, as I was once instructed by a photographic print conservator to never dry mount. So I have to have some border so my prints lay reasonably flat in just a hinged fasion with a hinged overmat.

    - Thomas
     
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    Shangheye

    Shangheye Member

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    Thanks everyone for the explanations and advice. Useful to know that trimming will have no adverse effect on the archival properties of the FB print. I like the idea of 24x20 and getting 4 sheets with some test strips. Rgds, Kal
     
  9. Simon R Galley

    Simon R Galley Subscriber

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    Everyone is correct !

    No harm is done cutting down FB, the 'waste' would / can be used for test strips :

    We do make square paper ( 10 x 10 ) for Aerial Survey print out work, but only to special order, we would not make it available to retail as it would certainly not be viable and not stocked by whoesalers or retailers.

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :
     
  10. Fintan

    Fintan Member

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    Every time this issue appears I get excited, I'd love to see 12"x12" WT FB. Just like your old album covers. Plain white no graphics on the box just that wee pink sticker.

    But having been on the factory tour I've seen the issues with packaging and having yet another stock item so I've promised to quit moaning for square paper. So I'm not going to do it :wink:

    I must say though the test strip suggestion is not really a runner for me, on a 12x16 sheet, assuming I spent the time to cut each one accurately, I'd get a 4 inch wide piece of paper for test strips.

    On a 12x12 enlargement I would rather a much wider strip most of the time :sad:
     
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    Shangheye

    Shangheye Member

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    Thanks for the confirmation Simon. I am an Ilford fan, so if it doesn't make business sense for you, I certainly don't want you doing it! K
     
  12. Dan Henderson

    Dan Henderson Member

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    Last time I ordered Foma paper for lith printing I accidentally ordered 20x24 instead of 8x10. No problem, thought I, I will just cut the paper into 8x8 or 8x10 sheets as needed. My darkroom is too small to easily handle those sheet sizes, so one night I walked up the basement stairs and shut off the lights, forgetting to bring my darkroom flashlight with me. No problem, thought I, until my foot slipped off of the top step in the dark and went down the rest of the stairs on my back. No permanent damage, but enough soreness to make me wish I had ordered the right size!
     
  13. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator
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    This is what I do when buying boxed paper. Generally I buy rolls and use a roll cutter to cut the paper to size. Its more efficient and cheaper in the long run.
     
  14. ooze

    ooze Member
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    FWIW, I print square pictures on rectangular paper without trimming, leaving a larger border at the bottom. I think this looks quite alright.
     
  15. mikebarger

    mikebarger Member

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    I cut 8x10 to 8x8 and have an 8x8 speed easel. I use the extra two inches as test strips. I haven't had any issues with the trimmed fiber paper

    Mike
     
  16. patrickjames

    patrickjames Member

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    You could buy a roll of paper and cut it down if you are concerned about waste. Silver paper is roughly priced by the surface area. You surely would save money if you did this. Probably not a lot, but some. Most of my printing is done on 11x14 that is cut down to 7x10. This prints a perfect frame from 35mm. I have a guillotine cutter that can do a bunch of sheets at one time. I do it this way because to me it is easier to just buy the 11x14 instead of buying two sizes of every paper I want.
     
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    Shangheye

    Shangheye Member

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    I'm off to buy a guillotine...thanks everyone..K
     
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