Split toning - brown & selenium

[tkamiya]

I'd like to get some input from experienced folks. I winged it and the result was unexpected....

I know how to use a direct brown toner and selenium toner. My process (individually) is...:

To brown tone:
Take a completely finished print (I always finish my processing first - washed completely)
Wet the print if dry
Brown toner - to taste
Hardener fix (to harden)
HCA
Wash 30 min

To Selenium tone:
Take a completely finished print (I always finish my processing first - washed completely)
Wet the print if dry
Selenium tone - to taste
HCA
Wash 30 min

What's the correct process if I am to split tone by brown tone first, then selenium?

What I did today was to tone in direct brown toner, wash it quickly for 3 minutes, then into selenium. The selenium toner acted very VERY quickly - far more quickly than by itself. The color change was well in progress at 2 minutes and in 5 minutes, it was in bright purple/red territory. Was the residual brown toner (if any was still in there) caused this reaction? By itself, it doesn't even get close to this color. Do I need much longer wash between the steps?

Just for reference, the paper was Adorama's house brand FB Matte, Brown toner is Legacy Pro brand direct brown toner diluted per instructions, and KRST at 1:40.

 

[brian steinberger]

When I use these two toners, albeit mine is Viradon, I always use selenium first. Polysulfide toners acts evenly across all tones and selenium from the shadows up. If you were to use it in reverse as you did there must be sufficient wash in between toners. What happened to you was probably toner carry over into the selenium. Polysulfide toners work stronger at higher dilutions so therefor it took off in the selenium. A 10% sodium sulfite bath is recommended after polysulfide toning to 'stop' the toning process. I would follow that with a healthy wash if I were to go to selenium afterward. I recommend using selenium first. I've gotten amazing results with selenium, then brown toner on Ilford MGWT.

 

[jthacker43]

I'm not quite sure of your process description. Are you using a sepia toner? I don't see a bleach step in the brown toner part of your process. Also, I think the wash time 3min between brown toning and selenium may not be long enough even for testing, but I'm not a chemistry major. And the fast reacting selenium is likely due to a strong concentration of the selenium toner.
Here are some thoughts about how I do split toning:
If you want to split tone (actually this is selective dual toning), you need to "split" the highlights from the shadows. You can do this by allowing the bleach to act on the highlights and not the shadows -- pull the print before the beach as acted a lot on the shadow areas. I use a very diluted concentration of bleach 1:10 (stock bleach:water) which allows a bit more time to see how the bleach is acting on the highlights. Then process with the toner as normal.
I also do a 30-min archival wash after the sepia toning and use a very weak selenium concentration like 1:19. I typically have the print in the selenium toner for about 5 min or so. But I watch it closely to avoid any hint of the purple color. I also process a couple of test prints to get my timing down. I end the process with an archival wash.
I suspect you are getting the fast reacting heavy purple effect from the seleniun with a fairly high concentration. Which is normal for concentrated solutions.
Hope this helps

 

[MattKing]

I'm not quite sure of your process description. Are you using a sepia toner? I don't see a bleach step in the brown toner part of your process. Also, I think the wash time 3min between brown toning and selenium may not be long enough even for testing, but I'm not a chemistry major. And the fast reacting selenium is likely due to a strong concentration of the selenium toner.
Here are some thoughts about how I do split toning:
If you want to split tone (actually this is selective dual toning), you need to "split" the highlights from the shadows. You can do this by allowing the bleach to act on the highlights and not the shadows -- pull the print before the beach as acted a lot on the shadow areas. I use a very diluted concentration of bleach 1:10 (stock bleach:water) which allows a bit more time to see how the bleach is acting on the highlights. Then process with the toner as normal.
I also do a 30-min archival wash after the sepia toning and use a very weak selenium concentration like 1:19. I typically have the print in the selenium toner for about 5 min or so. But I watch it closely to avoid any hint of the purple color. I also process a couple of test prints to get my timing down. I end the process with an archival wash.
I suspect you are getting the fast reacting heavy purple effect from the seleniun with a fairly high concentration. Which is normal for concentrated solutions.
Hope this helps

The OP is using a single bath brown toner, not a bleach-and-redevelop two bath toner.

 

[tkamiya]

Brian,

Yes, you are absolutely right - my process is reversed. What I meant to do was, Selenium first and brown second but instead I did what I did. The second toner really TOOK OFF! Apparently, one of the toners acted as a catalyst..... When I do it in the right order, 3 to 5 minutes wash seems to be sufficient. When my memory fails and do it backwards, wow.....

Jthacker43,

Thanks but I'm using a direct brown toner, not the indirect sepia. There is no bleach process. Plus, Selenium is at 1:40 dilution. I gave up on the traditional two step sepia toner as it was rather difficult for me to get the timing just right. Direct brown is a lot easier and the result is very similar. Appreciate your input, nevertheless....

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

When I do split toning my favorite combo is Selenium then bleach & Polysulfide.
If I don't do the bleach part I don't get the split.
Selenium then HCA & wash. Dry then bleach & tone the day after.
You could try to bleach before brown toner and see if you like the results. With selenium as first step.
G.

 

[Roger Cole]

Brian,

Yes, you are absolutely right - my process is reversed. What I meant to do was, Selenium first and brown second but instead I did what I did. The second toner really TOOK OFF! Apparently, one of the toners acted as a catalyst..... When I do it in the right order, 3 to 5 minutes wash seems to be sufficient. When my memory fails and do it backwards, wow.....

Jthacker43,

Thanks but I'm using a direct brown toner, not the indirect sepia. There is no bleach process. Plus, Selenium is at 1:40 dilution. I gave up on the traditional two step sepia toner as it was rather difficult for me to get the timing just right. Direct brown is a lot easier and the result is very similar. Appreciate your input, nevertheless....

Agree totally about single solution brown toner. I never had a problem with sepia but never got good at controlling it to less than full sepia. With the single solution brown toner I can get anything from removing the green cast and replacing it with just a touch of slightly warm brown to a full sepia, easily controlled by varying dilution and time, from a single (inexpensive in the Freestyle brand) liquid concentrate.