split printing for the first time

No Hall

No Hall

  • 0
  • 0
  • 14
Brentwood Kebab!

A
Brentwood Kebab!

  • 1
  • 1
  • 88
Summer Lady

A
Summer Lady

  • 2
  • 1
  • 119
DINO Acting Up !

A
DINO Acting Up !

  • 2
  • 0
  • 69
What Have They Seen?

A
What Have They Seen?

  • 0
  • 0
  • 82

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
198,784
Messages
2,780,801
Members
99,703
Latest member
heartlesstwyla
Recent bookmarks
0

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
52,894
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
Do you start with the Zero Filter first.?
I'm not Doremus, but I'll throw my perspective into this.
Depends on the negative!
For some negatives, it is best to start with the high contrast filter.
You mentioned that your negative was of a very grey scene. That sounds like a perfect negative to first pin down the shadow exposure, then later adjust the highlight exposure to taste - i.e. start with the high contrast filter.
And speaking more generally, while it is true that "splitting" for burns and dodges is one way of taking advantage of split grade printing, it is better, in my mind, to think of it more generally as a system which makes it easy to attain different contrasts in different parts of the negative.
 

Anon Ymous

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
3,661
Location
Greece
Format
35mm
I'm not Doremus, but I'll throw my perspective into this.
Depends on the negative!
For some negatives, it is best to start with the high contrast filter...
I'm not Doremus either, but I'd say the only time that I had to start with the hard filter was with an underexposed negative. The shadows had to be exposed purely with the #5 filter, otherwise they'd look too muddy. In any other case of reasonably well exposed negatives, I'd start with the soft filter first. The soft filter adds density throughout the tonal range, including the shadows, while the hard filter mostly affects shadows and midtones.
 
OP
OP

CMoore

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
6,220
Location
USA CA
Format
35mm
Thank You Both -
Like i say, this is all new to me.
It just so happened, that the first two Negs i tried fell into the "classic" High Contrast scenario. It was easy for me to start with Filter-0 and print for slight tone in Zone 8 and then switch to Filter-5 and print for Zone1-2.
On the third try, with a very Gray negative, i could not apply the text book method of starting with 0 and then finishing with 5.
Just for the sake of Learning/Experience, i should try Matt's approach and see how i do.
Though, all is not lost, i was able to take a shot at "Flashing" and then do a gradual burn with a higher contrast.....and that "Gray" negative printed quite well.
Speaking of flashing.......i have two Beseler 45, one is a Color Head and the other is a Condenser Head.
I did some test strips of the flashing with the Color Head, but it was extra work to Flash and Print with the same head.....so i flashed with the condenser head.
Wow.....i had to double the height of the condenser head, and trim 0.1 or 0.2 off the time. I guess the condenser is brighter than the color head with all its knobs at Zero.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2002
Messages
3,589
Location
Eugene, Oregon
Format
4x5 Format
Do you start with the Zero Filter first.?
What are you looking for in that first test strip.?
Thank You

Well, I am me, but I don't know if I'm going to be much help here. You see, I proof all my negatives either on graded paper or with a grade 2 or equivalent filtration. I then extrapolate a starting contrast grade from evaluating the proof and just dial in the anticipated correct filtration (it's rarely exactly correct, but a close starting point). In other words, for the first test strips I don't use split-grade printing at all. It's really just habit based on my years of printing on graded paper. What I've done with VC paper is to take advantage of the possibility to give different areas of the print contrast tweaks using split-grade techniques.

I first make a test strip at my extrapolated beginning contrast and find the desired starting exposure based on a (hopefully well-chosen) highlight value. Sometimes I'll adjust contrast filtration too at this point, but rarely. I then make a straight print at the determined exposure. After evaluating, I'll decide if I want to change exposure or filtration or tweak contrast using a split-grade technique.

So lets say I've got an initial print that needs a touch more exposure and is a bit weak in the shadows and also has one underexposed highlight area. At this point, I may just change basic filtration and make another test strip. Or, alternately for example, I'll add a certain percentage of exposure at the filtration I'm using and then give, say, 20% extra exposure with the hardest filter (either all the M I can get on the color head, or I switch to white light and use a Wratten #47B filter under the lens). Then, I'll dial all the way to soft, or use the Wratten #58 under the lens and burn the underexposed highlight area for whatever percentage I think might work.

I'll develop the print, hang it on my white board and evaluate it with notebook in hand and make a plan for the next print. Usually by print four or five I'm closing in pretty well on my desired result.

My split-printing is limited mostly to dodging and burning with hard/soft filtration while the "basic" contrast is an intermediate filtration. I find it easy with my set-up to just switch the color head to "white" light and use below lens filters for the dodging and burning. I'll use the hard filter to set a shadow and to get some detail in a highlight that I don't want to grey down too much. I'll use the soft filtration to bring in underexposed areas or tame too-light highlight details. Sometimes I use both in one area. I also dodge and burn with the basic filtration a lot (especially edge burns).

I don't know how much all of the above will help you if you want to use a split-grade printing regime for everything from start to finish using only soft and hard filtration. However, the theory is fairly straightforward. You need a combination of soft and hard that gives you some desired intermediate contrast grade. Let's say you're aiming at grade 2.5 contrast equivalent (I still find it easiest to think in terms of grades... at least that way I have some road signs in the contrast spectrum). So, you test for that, or simply start with equal amounts of hard and soft filtration. In the "Darkroom Dave" video linked to above, he starts with a 2.5 filter for the test strip, finds an initial exposure and then splits the exposure between hard and soft. One could, however, make a chessboard-like test strip with soft filtration in varying amounts on one axis and hard filtration on the other with the 50-50 split in the middle. Or make a soft (or hard) test strip, find an exposure for highlight (shadow) and then make a second test strip with the basic exposure from the first test and varying exposure from the hard (soft) filter. Whatever works and seems easiest for you. And, it doesn't make any difference which filter you start with.

Since I have a pretty good idea where my target overall contrast will fall from the proofs, I find it easiest to guesstimate a starting filtration and work from there.

Best,

Doremus
 

Bob Carnie

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Messages
7,735
Location
toronto
Format
Med. Format RF
I have been split printing from the day Ilford and Agfa introduced Classic and Warmtone and I have come up with a method that works for me but may be awkward to explain but I will try. Since I work for others and receive negatives of all
types , contrasts and density, as well as multi - generational projects of an artists life work the need to establish a good working method is very important .

First step , I decide what style of print I want to make, there are many , many styles.
- I line up all the negatives of a show on a large light table and look at them and group them. Some groups are due to density, Some groups are due to original scene contrast, and others are grouped based on their similarities.
- I like to work on the simplest negative first , this allows me to set the tone of the show , as well get confirmation from the artist or dealer that I am in their working palette.
- I always make three prints of any image so the client has a good range, I do adjust for dry down and I work fast.
- I always use a full sheet to test so I am seeing the whole image rather than itty bitty teeny weenie sections
- Over the years I am pretty good at looking at a projected negative and determining first density and contrast.
- I also watch the print in the developer to determine future dodge and burn areas

- Once this first image is done I base all my filter BLASTS based on the first print. I have established what a Normal Negative Normal lighting Scene looks like and its a matter of hitting the timer with
the proper filter in place moving forward into the day, Some projects take many days and its is important to group the negatives for sanity.

Ok here is where it gets awkward.. I never use 0 or 00 as my first exposure. ( I think that there is some chance of solarization in the dark tones with certain papers Ilford Warmtone for sure)
Rather I pick a filter that is softer in range from what the final single filter would be... so if I was using graded paper and I thought #3 filter was correct, in my split printing
I would us a 1 1/2 or 2 filter to start with and make an overall LIGHT AND SOFT PRINT.
Then on top of this print, I would BLAST the 5 filter at exactly the same density and aperture (IMPORTANT FOR ME)

I now have established a printing CONTRAST ratio of 1 part soft 1 part hard... 1:1 -if this is indeed the correct balance it could be 1 hit lower 2 hits hard and turn to a 1:2 printing ratio.

Remember I have chosen what I think is a normal negative and in a large body of work one could find negatives on either side of this Normal.

I then go back to the light box and print all the normals and if I need extra contrast I hit the 5 filter twice if I need lower contrast I put a card under the lens for half of the 5 exposure.
I always try to establish a 10 -15 second time for my printing, even if it means changing the wattages of the bulbs, so that I get pretty good at counting 10seconds.

For the high contrast scenes my starting filter can go down to as low as # 1/2 and for flat scenes I can find myself starting at #4 if required.
The amount of hits of # 5 can be 1/2 time to 5-7 hits of the timers it all depends on the negative original contrast range which I reverse with my printing contrast range.

I do flash with the starting filter for very difficult high contrast scenes, and for sure will start with the High filter for the low contrast scenes.
Dodging in the high contrast will help local contrast.
Burning in the highlights after flash with the low filter and #5 filter always helps set highlight detail.

One key to remember once I set the aperture and time I never change these elements in a print sequence ,
to C Moore the OP in this thread, if you keep your basics simple you will find you are concentrating
on the contrast formula rather than futzing about trying to adjust the timer and aperture
which over a long printing day can be a PIA
Rather use the above contrast formula to make the print and over time you will start thinking original scene and how to mimic it.

Bob
 
OP
OP

CMoore

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
6,220
Location
USA CA
Format
35mm
That is a lot of info Bob...Thank You.
Some of it is a bit above my ability at this point, i think, but i get the gist of what you are saying.
Kind of funny, but of all that, one of the things i relate to most and think important, is your test-strip size. I rarely use a full sheet in the beginning, but I Have Done So a few times.
I typically cut the paper in 3 somewhat equal strips and start with that. Usually 2 strips that are equal and the third is a bit bigger. I never have a strip that is less than 2.5 inches wide. I see people, when in a shared darkroom, with test-strips that look like they are only an inch wide at the most.
Sometimes i see in their Safe or Box, and i swear they must have 30 odd sized pieces of paper that they keep and try to burn up as a test strip.:smile:
Thanks Again for explaining your detailed approach.
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom