Split D-23

[removed account4]

eventually i am going to try using split d-23.
i know there are a zillion different recipes for it

but i think i am going to use this recipe:

bath A
750ml water + 7.5g metol +100g of sodium sulfite top off to 1000ml


but i don't have kodalk ( borax )
( i guess i could go to the grocery store and get 20 mule .. )

i do have sodium! carbonate ( washing soda ) handy

i have read that you can substitute one for the other
but i will have to experiment with the development time in bath B

with the borax it asks for 10g/1000ml water
would it be the same or more or less if i substituted washing soda ?

is it worth having a shortened time in bath B
or would i just be better off getting the borax, and is borax really the same
stuff as kodalk ?

thanks !
john

 

[Ian Grant]

Don't use Calcium Carbonate

Washing Soda is Sodium Carbonate. Kodalk is Sodium Metaborate which can be formed using Borax and Sodium Hydroxide.

Ian

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Kodalk (sodium metaborate) is not borax and is quite a bit more alkaline. Borax will therefore not work in this case. You can get sodium metaborate from www.thechemistrystore.com, www.techcheminc.com, or other chemical suppliers. If you google Kodalk you will find intructions on how to make it from borax and lye.

 

[anikin]

Yes, you can use sodium carbonate. Anchell's darkroom cookbook lists 4.5g ahydrous carbonate in 500ml of water. His formula
uses 5g of Metol though. The only issue with using washing soda is the risk of pinholes from CO2 in the stop bath. If you are planning
to use sodium carbonate, use water stop and you should be fine.

Eugene.

 

[anikin]

Oh, I get Ian's joke. Yes, calcium carbonate might be a bit gritty for negative film ;-)

 

[Jerevan]

I guess you've already seen this, John, but for the sake of completeness there are a few variations on the Borax theme: http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/DD-23/dd-23.html

 

[removed account4]

at least i got the " - ium carbonate" right

thanks for noticing ...


i'll fix that ... thanks !

 

[removed account4]

thanks for the link jerevan !

 

[CBG]

You can use a variety of alkalies in bath 2. The stronger, the faster you will build contrast. Washing soda can give you a pretty solid neg. I use borax since it's effects are a bit milder, but with lower times in bath 1 you might make sodium carbonate work out for you.

... is it worth having a shortened time in bath B ...

Better to work out contrast issues by altering time in bath 1. Bath 2 should be taken to completion, usually 3 minutes.

 

[H. James Wolf]

Metaborate also works. There's a good discussion of the whole borax/metaborate/carbonate issue in Anchell & Troop's Film Developer's Cookbook and the various editions of Anchell's Darkroom Cookbook. If you're trying to knock down severe contrast, borax works well; metaborate also works well but gives more contrast. You can also vary the amount of metol from 5g to 7.5g and the amount of sodium sulfite depending on how much grain you want or don't want.

 

[Relayer]

don't forget to add sodium sulfite to 2nd bath. about 30-40g/l. also you can try TEA/DEA/MEA in 2nd bath as alkali. about 20-30ml/l. or Trisodium phosphate 20-30g/l.

 

[CBG]

don't forget to add sodium sulfite to 2nd bath. about 30-40g/l ...

Looking through a bunch of formulas for two bath developers, I see maybe half have sulfite in the second bath, and half not.

I have never seen the case written out for sulfite in the second bath. In my own experience, I have always used sulfite in the first bath only, and it's worked well for me. I have used several variants of the very simple D-23 / borax - or other alkali - two bath scheme with good results. I can't speak to the issues involved in more complex developers.

My assumption has always been that the second bath doesn't need sulfite at all, at least in the D-23 family, since if there is sufficient sulfite in the first bath, that will be enough, and that in the second bath, eventual developer exhaustion is part of the mechanics of providing a compensated action.

 

[Adrian Twiss]

I am a fan of Barry Thornton's 2 bath film developer

Bath A

Water 750ml
Metol 6.5g
Sodium Sulphite 80g
Water to 1000ml

Bath B

Water 750ml
Sodium Metaborate 12g
Water to 1000ml

You can vary the amount of Sodium Metaborate thus:-

High SBR 7g
Average SBR 12g
Low SBR 20g

Try 4 minutes in each bath (5 for sheet films)

Barry Thornton suggests no agitation in bath B but warns that there could be streaking when using 35mm films. With 35mm films try one inversion every minute. With sheet film no agitation in bath B causes no problems.

 

[Relayer]

My assumption has always been that the second bath doesn't need sulfite at all, at least in the D-23 family, since if there is sufficient sulfite in the first bath, that will be enough, and that in the second bath, eventual developer exhaustion is part of the mechanics of providing a compensated action.

maybe, but Diafine used sulfite in 2nd bath. also very interesting patent US4363869 about split D76

 

[H. James Wolf]

I have tried sulfite in the second bath; the theory is that there is less grain. I haven't seen a difference if the second bath is borax; that's already pretty fine grained even with ISO 400 film. I haven't tried it with metaborate as the second bath.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I have never seen the case written out for sulfite in the second bath.

A small amount of sulfite in the second bath will prevent any staining from occuring. The developer carried over from the first bath will oxidize and turn brown. Without it the bath will soon discolor and have to be replaced. Some two bath developers contain a lot of sulfite in the second bath on the theory that it will provide finer grain.

 

[removed account4]

A small amount of sulfite in the second bath will prevent any staining from occuring. The developer carried over from the first bath will oxidize and turn brown. Without it the bath will soon discolor and have to be replaced. Some two bath developers contain a lot of sulfite in the second bath on the theory that it will provide finer grain.

can you do a water "dip" between baths
so there is less carryover ?
or do you need to go -directly-
into the 2nd bath ?

thanks !
john

 

[CBG]

can you do a water "dip" between baths
so there is less carryover ?
or do you need to go -directly-
into the 2nd bath ?

thanks !
john

Direct into the second bath is the way to go, for you to be able to make use of the logic of two bath development. That logic is as follows: the developer that is saturated into the emulsion is activated by the alkali in the second bath. Shadows are developed quite fully since they have little silver and do not exhaust their available developer. Highlights use up the developing agent more quickly, and are proportionately less developed since they exhaust their available developer early. The result is known as compensated development.

All that said, there is no absolute prohibition to a water dip as you ask, but you then are pushing the nature of the process into a bastardized interspecies mule, something akin to water bath development and also akin to two bath. It could be argued that there is almost no benefit to be gained by the added complexity of one more step. You would then have to have one more exactly timed step,with known agitation etc., etc ... Any benefit you could thus achieve could probably be got through one of the two parent processes by itself, thus saving a step.

Water bath development is closely related to two bath in concept. The logic of local highlight exhaustion and compensated development still pertains. However water bath is probably best suited to development by inspection - DBI - which rules out some films and many darkroom workers who do not want to deal with DBI.

Two bath film development is done strictly by time and temperature, and is well suited to anyone who can splash film around in a tank or tray. It is generally not used as a custom DBI process.

 

[CBG]

A small amount of sulfite in the second bath will prevent any staining from occuring. The developer carried over from the first bath will oxidize and turn brown. Without it the bath will soon discolor and have to be replaced. Some two bath developers contain a lot of sulfite in the second bath on the theory that it will provide finer grain.

Thanks! That makes perfect sense. I do get a visible coloration of my second bath. It doesn't seem to do any harm, but I tend to replace the second bath earlier rather than later since it just doesn't look promising.

On the grain size issue, I tend to wonder how little sulfite I can use, to push the process towards acutance, rather than towards lots of sulfite and fine grain. I have't messed with sulfite quantities experimentally in two bath processing, so it remains for me just theory so far.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

On the grain size issue, I tend to wonder how little sulfite I can use, to push the process towards acutance, rather than towards lots of sulfite and fine grain. I have't messed with sulfite quantities experimentally in two bath processing, so it remains for me just theory so far.

For single bath developers, the maximum solvency of sulfite for silver halide occurs at about 70 g/l.