spent fixer ... the poll

Bob F. said:

....Several pieces of anecdotal evidence of people using a septic system suggests that there is not a problem even there (and if anyone would know, they would - the smell would be inescapable!).
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]I'll take my advice from the waste disposal expert - and after doing a bit of my own research 'cos I rarely believe a single-source.

Click to expand...

but as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you
you can't make him ...

Click to expand...

DutchShooter said:

...To human beings, aluminium ions are (IIRC) more toxic than silver ions...so whether you improve the situation?? I would prefer steel wool to be sure...

Click to expand...

Kirk Keyes said:

It is illegal by federal law for businesses to dispose of silver down the drain in the USA, but not individuals.

Keep in mind that those businesses with silver recovery systems are still going to be releasing some silver in their effluent, but it must be below a certain concentration. They are permitted to have silver in the effluent, but it must be below the concentration on their permit. The permit is usually written by their state government. So even then, they are still dumping some silver down the drain into the sewer system.

Local regulations may not allow individuals to dump it down the drain as well.

You are claiming something that is not necessarily true.

Click to expand...

Kirk Keyes said:

That's really not what's happening here. You're trying to guilt the horse into drinking water, when he may not be thirsty and may not need a drink of water.

It's interesting how much shame is being put on people that are actually doing the legally acceptable thing - dumping silver containing solutions into their septic or sewer systems.

A lot of "green" people try to do this to people that they don't see as being as "green" as themselves, and it just gives the people they are trying to convince to "drink the water" a bad taste in their mouths.

Click to expand...

wogster said:

One of the problems with pouring it down the drain, forgetting the hazardous part, is that if exposure to certain metals like copper and aluminum will cause the silver to come out and the other metal to be absorbed into the chemistry, then what about your pipes? There are places that use copper drain pipes, although plastic is more common now, and lead was used in the past, there is always the question of whether the fixer could eat the pipe and deposit silver sludge, which not only affects the integrity of the pipe, but can block it as well. Just because visible pipes inside the house are plastic, it doesn't mean the pipe inside the walls, floors and under the yard is. I would hate to need to spend $5,000 getting the basement floor ripped out, because fixer plated copper out of a drain pipe and replaced it with silver sludge.

Desilvering with AL foil is one solution, not sure how accurate it is, or how much silver is pulled out that way. The argument a lot of people have is that they don't use that much, in that case, why not save it up and when you have 10L or 5 gallons, take it to the depot, along with any other left over chemicals, pesticides and other crap that really shouldn't go down the drain or into the garbage.

Click to expand...

jnanian said:

i often wonder about the corroding the pipes thing as well ...

i guess there are a variety of different things people can do if they feel
it suites their needs ...
i have used a hauler for about 9 years ...
and it works for me ...
but i am learning about different options that might work just as well ...

i know that where i am, using my septic/sewer system ( even though i am very low volume ) is not an option ...

Click to expand...

nsurit said:

Toxic Taxi! Gee, I wonder if they would pick up in Texas.

I'm not yet wet. The dark part of the darkroom is a few weeks away. The suggestions offered here have been helpful.

I guess there is no way to avoid a bit of junk from your wash water getting into the environment, however for the things where I have more control, I will take the steps I can to make sure it doesn't pollute.

Bill Barber

Click to expand...

MattKing said:

It would be great if each time you use fixer you could pour it through a filter that takes out the silver, than replenish and reuse what is left in the same way that XTOL is replenished.

If possible, the filter should be easily recycled/disposed of, reasonably inexpensive, and include a built in indicator of some type that would show that it was at capacity.

PE, need another project?

Matt

Click to expand...

psvensson said:

The silver from spent fixer in a home darkroom doesn't present any substantial danger to municipal sewage systems, bacteria, fish, or the rest of the environment. Why? Because it meets organic sulfides in the sewers. They form silver sulfide, which is highly stable and insoluble, and therefore of little consequence to bacteria living things.

My source for this is an Ilford paper that I unfortunately don't have handy. But you can test the reaction by pouring Kodak Brown Toner into spent fixer: you'll immediately get a black sludge.

Click to expand...

jnanian said:

something just hit me while i was processing some film tonight ...
you mention sulfides within the sewer system ...
this must work the same or a similar way that
perma wash, hypo eliminator/fixer removers work.
originally based on the seawater-wash methods that were used
to shorten development times during ww2 ... organic sulfides in the water
bonded with floating around fixer ions and grabbed them /removed
them from the print / film ... kind of sort of more complicated than that i would imagine, but this seems to be the sort of thing you are talking about.

as i dumped my wash water in a trickle tank and it slowly filled the bottom half containing iron (to basically do what using steel wool does) ..
i started to think about all the responses in this thread.

this one in particular sunk in, especially after chatting on the phone this morning
with someone who knows an awful lot about photochemistry ...
and he was talking about something very similar, if not the same as you ..

...

john

Click to expand...

2F/2F said:

Kodak states the same that psvensson mentioned in data sheet J-300, though not in as much detail as what he sez the Ilford publication mentioned. They just say that the silver contained in darkroom effluents is in a harmless form as silver thiosulfate, and is handled by sewer treatment facilities no problem. I copied and pasted the part I'm talking about a few pages ago in the thread.

Nonetheless, there are laws against businesses dumping untreated fixer. Exactly how these laws read, one (or more) of us should find out. Do they apply to anyone making a living (or a certain percentage of a living) with their photography, or only to businesses that are actually photo labs? If the former, things may change for many of us if we make money with the pix we work on in our home darkrooms.

Regardless, I stated already what I do, and I think it is a reasonable solution, even as primarily a hobbyist, and with the relatively low volume I deal with at home (about 15 to 20 gallons a year of spent fixer on average).

I am curious, though...

What are the laws for school darkrooms? I know for a fact the school darkroom I used to use (and still do when they let me ) dumped the contents of their pair of 5 gallon fixer trays straight down the drain anytime the hypo check said it was done. Turned the whole tray over and put the whole 5 gallons down the drain like that. I thought it was lazy and irresponsible, but apparently they had run out of 5 gallon bottles to store the spent fixer in, because the janitor who used to take it for silver reclamation had retired.....

Click to expand...