Spectra is Dead

[Ariston]

I just found a video of a kid doing what I am talking about, except he cannot get the Instax to eject from the Polaroid camera, so he reloads it into the Instax camera. He mentions it being mirrored:

 

[Ariston]

Thanks again PE. I understand now.

 

[foc]

And to confuse matters more, there is a Polaroid camera called Polaroid 300 which is really a Fuji Instax camera with a Polaroid badge, that used Fuji Instax Mini film.

 

[reddesert]

Cameras are getting old? Hopefully, regular films manufacturers think differently.

A difference is that an instant camera is a processor as well as a camera. Most regular film is backward compatible with cameras - you can expose a roll of C-41 120 in a camera made 100 years ago. This was never true of Polaroids (except for pack/sheet-film backs, RIP).

I read the Polaroid Originals announcement as saying they can't guarantee their film will be processed correctly by existing Spectra cameras. I don't know whether this is the fault of the film or the camera, and as a business decision, it doesn't matter. If they can't make the film work well, selling it is eventually just going to irritate customers, and they should concentrate on their films that are more promising.

 

[Ariston]

A difference is that an instant camera is a processor as well as a camera. Most regular film is backward compatible with cameras - you can expose a roll of C-41 120 in a camera made 100 years ago. This was never true of Polaroids (except for pack/sheet-film backs, RIP).

I read the Polaroid Originals announcement as saying they can't guarantee their film will be processed correctly by existing Spectra cameras. I don't know whether this is the fault of the film or the camera, and as a business decision, it doesn't matter. If they can't make the film work well, selling it is eventually just going to irritate customers, and they should concentrate on their films that are more promising.

I really think this is the case. I looked to buy some Spectra film quite awhile ago, and even then their website said that it may not process correctly because of the condition of the cameras. I don't know why Spectra cameras have more difficulty or are in worse shape than other Polaroids. I have bought several cheap thrift-store 600 cameras over the years, and they all processed the film just fine.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Instant cameras are very critical in gap or undercut of the amount of goo (processing solution) and if it is wrong there are streaks or other blemishes. This is due to the condition of the rollers and other parts of the camera. It is like having a bad Jobo processor giving the wrong rotation speeds, temperature or other process parameters.

PE

 

[AgX]

Ariston, you are not fair!

First you are raising this question

In a perfect world, Fuji and Polaroid would get together to license the Fuji technology for Polaroid cameras.

Which I read as transferring the chemical system of Fuji to a Polaroid film.

Having been repeatedly told that such is not viable. You insist nonetheless in being educated on how these systems work.
Which neither PE nor me did.
Integral coulour instant films are basically the most complicated systems within analog photography. Im my lecturing I spend hours just on this field.
Do not expect me to explain that to you at night in just one post.
(By the way, Kodak ran the longest legal case in the history of the industry, just trying to convince the judge in their system being different from that of Polaroid, and failed...)

And now you are suddenly satisfied with a Fuji film run through a Polaroid camera. A complete different approach!

 

[Ariston]

Ariston, you are not fair!

First you are raising this question


Which I read as transferring the chemical system of Fuji to a Polaroid film.

Having been repeatedly told that such is not viable. You insist nonetheless in being educated on how these systems work.
Which neither PE nor me did.
Integral coulour instant films are basically the most complicated systems within analog photography. Im my lecturing I spend hours just on this field.
Do not expect me to explain that to you at night in just one post.
(By the way, Kodak ran the longest legal case in the history of the industry, just trying to convince the judge in their system being different from that of Polaroid, and failed...)

And now you are suddenly satisfied with a Fuji film run through a Polaroid camera. A complete different approach!

Agx, I'm sure I wasn't being very clear because I did not know enough to articulate it clearly. I was wondering if the fuji film AND process could be simply reformatted to run through a Polaroid camera. I was not asking about mixing the two products or changing the chemistry, just licensing the one to work in the other's camera.

I'm still not sure if I am making sense...

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ariston, the Fuji product is the Kodak design. It was leased to them when Kodak ceased production of PR10. Fuji could have selected any camera they wanted and made any re-design of the film that they wanted. They opted to use the Kodak camera design as the entire package was easier then. They have continued to use the Kodak design and that is why the initial cameras could use Kodak packs and vice versa.

There is no reason that they cannot redesign the Kodak / Fuji pack to work in a Polaroid type camera, given lots of funding and a huge potential market, but they go with their own (Kodak) design.

One of the big faults with the Polaroid camera and pack was the need for an integral battery in the Polaroid stuff and the other was the substantially poorer color and image quality.

PE

 

[kb3lms]

I picked up a Spectra a few years ago and I like the camera quite a bit for the little that I have used it. However, the Impossible / Polaroid Originals film has not worked very well in it. The pictures don't eject properly and consequently don't develop very well. When it works it is OK, but it usually doesn't. It always seemed that the film pack battery didn't have enough "oomph" for the Spectra. They were very gracious and replaced a couple of film packs at no charge when I pointed it out. Maybe there aren't enough Spectra cameras around to justify fixing it.

Still, it's a shame.

 

[foc]

Ariston, the Fuji product is the Kodak design. It was leased to them when Kodak ceased production of PR10. Fuji could have selected any camera they wanted and made any re-design of the film that they wanted. They opted to use the Kodak camera design as the entire package was easier then. They have continued to use the Kodak design and that is why the initial cameras could use Kodak packs and vice versa.

There is no reason that they cannot redesign the Kodak / Fuji pack to work in a Polaroid type camera, given lots of funding and a huge potential market, but they go with their own (Kodak) design.

One of the big faults with the Polaroid camera and pack was the need for an integral battery in the Polaroid stuff and the other was the substantially poorer color and image quality.

PE

That is very interesting, PE.
So is the present Instax film based on the Kodak PR system or did Fuji make their own tweeks to it?

 

[Ariston]

I wish a kickstarter campaign could come up with a way to make a reusable, rechargeable Polaroid cartridge that an Instax cartridge could be mounted into. I don't think it would fit, and I don't know how you would solve the feeding problem, but that would be a cool gadget. Are those films even the same speed?

 

[Photo Engineer]

I have no idea what Fuji has done to it lately. We had an advanced design film with a speed of 3000 that was cancelled. The Fuji film is faster, and must use a neutral density to work properly in a Kodak camera, but recent packs will not work back and forth.

And, Ariston, you should look again at what you have said. There is no way that these packs can really be used interchangeably. Thickness and battery pack are big non-starters.

PE

 

[Ariston]

Hi PE,

I did mention that I don't think it would fit (unless you are talking about the thickness of the actual film). I don't have any of the packs in front of me to see the size.

I am just saying it would be cool if someone could make a Polaroid pack with a rechargeable battery that a Fuji pack could slip into - even if it is a pipe dream, it is fun to dream.

I guess the best we can hope for is for Polaroid Originals to get better at making film, and to be able to make it more efficiently so the price will come down.

 

[Photo Engineer]

You have to dream to do research, but you also have to remain practical. I could dream of a lot of things but could only make some of the dreams come true when I was doing active research.

PE

 

[SilverShutter]

The reality is that the only thing keeping alive Polaroid is its brand identity and the propietary film types for vintage cameras.
If Instax worked on Polaroid cameras, it would simply destroy Polaroid's business. Their films are still very delicate and finnicky. I don't have anything against their "look", but I can only say it does greatly limit the uses of those cameras.

 

[Ariston]

The reality is that the only thing keeping alive Polaroid is its brand identity and the propietary film types for vintage cameras.
If Instax worked on Polaroid cameras, it would simply destroy Polaroid's business. Their films are still very delicate and finnicky. I don't have anything against their "look", but I can only say it does greatly limit the uses of those cameras.

I'm with you. Their "look" isn't even authentic Polaroid, since it looks nothing like the original films. I wish they could use the old formulas. Their cameras sure do have that nostalgia factor, though.

 

[AgX]

.. that is why the initial [Fuji] cameras could use Kodak packs and vice versa.

The initial respective Fuji Film is Instax Wide. Its cassette is similar to the Kodak cassette, but the casettes are by no means interchangable.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Many here reported using Fuji cartridges in Kodak cameras with ND filters over the sensor.

PE

 

[mshchem]

Many here reported using Fuji cartridges in Kodak cameras with ND filters over the sensor.

PE

How close (in general terms) is Fuji Instax to the Kodak Instant films? Seems to be a similar approach.

 

[AgX]

Many here reported using Fuji cartridges in Kodak cameras with ND filters over the sensor.

They do not swap cassettes but fiddle a single sheet of the small Instax Mini film into a Kodak camera.

 

[Photo Engineer]

How close (in general terms) is Fuji Instax to the Kodak Instant films? Seems to be a similar approach.

As I said above, they are identical chemically, or were. Fuji has changed the speed and recently changed the cassette design.

PE

 

[AgX]

When did that change took place? My oldest model is from 2 years after the introduction of Instax. And they all take the same type Wide casette.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Please look it up in old posts.

PE

 

[reddesert]

If one browses shopgoodwill.com, the Goodwill auction site (the US equivalent of an internet yard sale), it amazes me how many Kodak instant cameras - Handles, Colorbursts, etc - are still being unearthed from American basements and donated to charity shops. They were made for only 10 years and the film disappeared in 1985. Yet the cameras have hung on, taking up space, as if waiting for a miraculous return like some kind of messianic movement. Personally, I expect that after our civilization has disappeared, the last remaining traces will be a geological layer of Polaroid Colorpack cameras.