Spare Some Advice for a New Large Format Photographer?

[Ces1um]

Well it seems like I'm getting a lot of different opinions here, as expected. Lots of good tips and advice though. I think I'll check out the interwebs and see if I can get more info on the camera along with some other new cameras with roughly comparable pricing. I'm curious though why some people prefer the shutter on the speed graphic vs the crown graphic?

 

[Alan Gales]

Well it seems like I'm getting a lot of different opinions here, as expected. Lots of good tips and advice though. I think I'll check out the interwebs and see if I can get more info on the camera along with some other new cameras with roughly comparable pricing. I'm curious though why some people prefer the shutter on the speed graphic vs the crown graphic?

The Speed has a focal plane shutter built in. If you want to use old brass lenses which don't have a shutter you can use the focal plane shutter in the Speed.

Yeah, everyone has an opinion. That's because we are all different. There is no camera perfect for everyone. I was just teasing my friend Sirius but his camera works for him.

 

[btaylor]

I think the only reason you would want a Speed Graphic with the focal plane shutter would be if you were going to use lenses without a shutter. Frankly, the small lens board on a Graphic makes that difficult anyway.

Thanks Alan for the differentiation between the Super Speed Graphic and the Super Graphic. Apparently the Super Speed Graphic rarely reached it's touted 1/1000 sec shutter speed. I have the Super Graphic. I enjoy using it with a monopod. As Sirius points out they are good handheld cameras. The revolving back is quite a nice feature that the Crown and Speed Graphics lack.

 

[Richard Man]

Do you know who is selling them? I've been to B&H's site and they're all well over $1000. What brands are they? I'm also seeing that most crown graphics with a lens are going for about $600 on ebay. That seems a far cry from the 150-400 that another member quoted. I'm thinking they must have been quoting camera minus a lens. Any thoughts?

Hi Ces1um, look for Intrepid, Gibelline (the low end 3-D printed one), VDS or something similar just introduced one, and someone in UK just started a KickStarter on 4x5 acrylic cameras. All of these are under $500. To be honest, I see things like these announced on various FB groups rather than here.

 

[Richard Man]

As for prices, someone will always mention the lowest prices they have found or read about. Your biggest expense will be film and development. There are probably a few great LF cameras that were sold for $200 or whatever, but generally anything decent will generally cost more.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Well it seems like I'm getting a lot of different opinions here, as expected. Lots of good tips and advice though. I think I'll check out the interwebs and see if I can get more info on the camera along with some other new cameras with roughly comparable pricing. I'm curious though why some people prefer the shutter on the speed graphic vs the crown graphic?

The Speed has a focal plane shutter built in. If you want to use old brass lenses which don't have a shutter you can use the focal plane shutter in the Speed.

Yeah, everyone has an opinion. That's because we are all different. There is no camera perfect for everyone. I was just teasing my friend Sirius but his camera works for him.

I think the only reason you would want a Speed Graphic with the focal plane shutter would be if you were going to use lenses without a shutter. Frankly, the small lens board on a Graphic makes that difficult anyway.

Thanks Alan for the differentiation between the Super Speed Graphic and the Super Graphic. Apparently the Super Speed Graphic rarely reached it's touted 1/1000 sec shutter speed. I have the Super Graphic. I enjoy using it with a monopod. As Sirius points out they are good handheld cameras. The revolving back is quite a nice feature that the Crown and Speed Graphics lack.

A big reason that the Speed Graphic is chosen over a Crown Graphic is that the photographer wants to be able to use barrel lenses [lenses without shutters].

 

[Alan Gales]

Here ya go!

Speed graphic with aero ektar

For the bubble bokeh lovers!

 

[Ces1um]

Hi Ces1um, look for Intrepid, Gibelline (the low end 3-D printed one), VDS or something similar just introduced one, and someone in UK just started a KickStarter on 4x5 acrylic cameras. All of these are under $500. To be honest, I see things like these announced on various FB groups rather than here.

So the intrepid is 250 gbp, the cheapest Gibellini I saw was over two thousand euro, and the VDS started at 900 euro. Intrepid is definitely a front runner for sure. I understand why they caused such a stir when they started up their kickstarter campaign now.

 

[Alan Gales]

I think the only reason you would want a Speed Graphic with the focal plane shutter would be if you were going to use lenses without a shutter. Frankly, the small lens board on a Graphic makes that difficult anyway.

Thanks Alan for the differentiation between the Super Speed Graphic and the Super Graphic. Apparently the Super Speed Graphic rarely reached it's touted 1/1000 sec shutter speed. I have the Super Graphic. I enjoy using it with a monopod. As Sirius points out they are good handheld cameras. The revolving back is quite a nice feature that the Crown and Speed Graphics lack.

A very good friend of mine owns a Super Speed Graphic. It lovingly resides in an antique glass display case because it belonged to his father. He has a Toyo field camera for shooting.

One of our LFPF buddies told me the Super Speed Graphic shutter had a hard time hitting 1/1000 of a second even when new. Some of those old guys have a wealth of knowledge.

 

[Richard Man]

So the intrepid is 250 gbp, the cheapest Gibellini I saw was over two thousand euro, and the VDS started at 900 euro. Intrepid is definitely a front runner for sure. I understand why they caused such a stir when they started up their kickstarter campaign now.

NO!!! There are under $500 versions of Gibelline (I think called Bellatrix) and a new one, I think from VDS or another one of the recently established LF camera makers. This is why I mentioned them. I don't have the links handy. I meant exactly what I wrote.

 

[Ces1um]

NO!!! There are under $500 versions of Gibelline (I think called Bellatrix) and a new one, I think from VDS or another one of the recently established LF camera makers. This is why I mentioned them. I don't have the links handy. I meant exactly what I wrote.

interesting. On their main website https://www.gibellinicamera.com/shop there isn't anything in the price range you quote. BUT on https://www.theitaliancamera.com/ they havea 4x5 called the proxima century for the price you're quoting. I wonder why they have two websites?

 

[jeffreyg]

I've had and am using a Toyo field camera for a number of years and it has enough movements for my purposes. I originally bought it because it had a metal body and living in
south Florida I was concerned about the humidity affecting a wood framed camera (probably an over reaction). Since your preference is landscape, I would suggest a field camera and a sturdy tripod. For lenses a 65mm, 90mm or 120mm to cover the image circle with some movements. For general subject a 210mm and for telephoto perhaps a 300mm tele. In selecting a lens the length of your bellows draw needs to be considered. With the field camera you should have a loupe and focusing cloth and remember you will be seeing everything upside down and backwards. You will also need film holders and to do some math for exposure compensation with different bellows extensions. What I did was to do the math re stops and mark them on a retractable tape measure. Don't forget a lightmeter incident/spot. Shooting landscapes you will probably want a couple of filters as well. I would imagine that since many pros have gone digital there should be good amount of equipment no longer in use that you can get at a reasonable price. For printing a 4x5 enlarger which you may already have. I guess my two cents will further confuse the issue.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[jim10219]

As btaylor says there is the Super Speed Graphic. There is also the Super Graphic. The Super Speed Graphic has a lens with a really fast shutter. The Super Graphic is the same camera but without that lens and shutter combination. From my understanding the front tilt on these two cameras tilt both ways unlike Crowns and Speeds. Also they both have revolving backs so you don't have to tilt your camera on it's side for portrait view like with the Crown and Speed Graphics.

With these cameras you can use a 90mm lens if you drop the bed. A 90 is as wide as you can go though which may be fine with you.

Is that just for the Super Graphic and Super Speed Graphic? Because on my Anniversary Speed Graphic I don't have to drop the bed or do anything funky when using my 90mm lens (an SWD Fujinon 5.6), and the lens board stays out of the shot. In fact, I can't really drop the bed while using it and focusing on infinity, because the infinity focal point of that lens is right where the bed hinges, so if I try to drop the bed, I don't really have a place to secure the lens board on the rails. However, the Fujinon SWD 90/5.6 is a slightly retrofocal design with a flange focal length of 101.1mm, so it doesn't sit quite as far back as a true 90mm would. I've also heard of people using 75mm lenses with the Crown Graphics without any issue, other than having to drop the bed. I don't know if it would work on a Speed Graphic. I haven't tried. But there's still some rail left behind the bed when you drop the bed, so I wouldn't be surprised if you could. Especially since many have a flange focal length longer that 75mm. But I know that the Crown Graphics will allow you to pull the lens board closer to the film plane than the Speed Graphics will due to the lack of a focal plane shutter.

A very good friend of mine owns a Super Speed Graphic. It lovingly resides in an antique glass display case because it belonged to his father. He has a Toyo field camera for shooting.

One of our LFPF buddies told me the Super Speed Graphic shutter had a hard time hitting 1/1000 of a second even when new. Some of those old guys have a wealth of knowledge.

You're definitely right about those speeds. They're also notoriously unreliable and virtually impossible to find parts for, so they're best avoided all together unless you're a collector who doesn't plan on putting much use on one.

 

[paul ron]

If you are looking to get your feet wet and on a budget.... get a 9x12? I love my voitlander avus for its compactness and ease of use. If you are buying one... make sure it comes with film holders and of course no light leaks n fungus, shutter working as well. If you get plate holders with it, you can also find film sheaths for them or just fill the hole with a piece of matt board and place the film on top. At 3LBs with 4 film holders it stores in a small pouch about the size of a paperback book.

Another 9x12 is the zeiss maximar... another beautiful camera.

BTW I made my own film backs for my 9x12s using a piece of thick aluminum and an RB67 film back. There are film backs for these cameras as well if you wnat to shoot 120 film... RADA is the brand.

 

[guangong]

I enjoy using my wooden Wista field camera. Lots of front and back movement. Film ready when Spring weather arrives.

 

[Alan Gales]

Is that just for the Super Graphic and Super Speed Graphic? Because on my Anniversary Speed Graphic I don't have to drop the bed or do anything funky when using my 90mm lens (an SWD Fujinon 5.6), and the lens board stays out of the shot. In fact, I can't really drop the bed while using it and focusing on infinity, because the infinity focal point of that lens is right where the bed hinges, so if I try to drop the bed, I don't really have a place to secure the lens board on the rails. However, the Fujinon SWD 90/5.6 is a slightly retrofocal design with a flange focal length of 101.1mm, so it doesn't sit quite as far back as a true 90mm would. I've also heard of people using 75mm lenses with the Crown Graphics without any issue, other than having to drop the bed. I don't know if it would work on a Speed Graphic. I haven't tried. But there's still some rail left behind the bed when you drop the bed, so I wouldn't be surprised if you could. Especially since many have a flange focal length longer that 75mm. But I know that the Crown Graphics will allow you to pull the lens board closer to the film plane than the Speed Graphics will due to the lack of a focal plane shutter.

Thanks for the correction, Jim.

After reading what you wrote, I did some quick research. It seems there are differences of opinion out there. Someone said if you use wider lenses the bellow are scrunched up too much. A lot of people said that you can use a 75mm lens no problem. Some said even wider. They didn't mention anything about wiggle room though.

Even with the differences in opinion I was wrong. It seems that I was parroting some misinformation that I had read or heard in the past. Either that or my memory is going. Sorry about that.

 

[Richard Man]

Seriously, there are a few $500 or under new 4x5 out there as I mentioned. I'm not going to post every link, but here's the other one I mentioned:

http://www.stenopeika.com/prodotto/hyper-camera-4x5-advanced/

Up your google-fu.

 

[removed account4]

keep your eyes open on the skandi ebay site
look for the 4x5 equiv. szabad camera ( 9x12 ? )
they sometimes sell for cheeps, built of beautiful wood
LIKE A TANK. probably will cost much less than $500
be the first in your country to have one they aren't common in this hemisphere.

 

[Ces1um]

Seriously, there are a few $500 or under new 4x5 out there as I mentioned. I'm not going to post every link, but here's the other one I mentioned:

http://www.stenopeika.com/prodotto/hyper-camera-4x5-advanced/

Up your google-fu.

 

[Richard Man]

;-) :thumbs up:

 

[Tubaphone27]

So for what it is worth I'd say don't get a Crown and Speed Graphic. In 1998 when large format equipment was much more expensive getting a crown or speed graphic was definitely the right step towards getting into large format. IMHO get a field camera made by Intrepid, Toyo, Horseman, Anba Ikeda, or Tachihara. They will serve you better in the long run and are newer cameras with a wider range of movements. I was going to get an Intrepid 4x5 but stumbled onto an Anba Ikeda field camera for a good price. It's 2.6lbs and does everything I need to do with a wider range of movements, that I use regularly, than what I would have gotten from on of the graphics. Nothing wrong with Crown and Speed Graphics for what they are but why not take one small step forward and get a true field camera.


Also, my first post here. I was lurker but will be no longer.

 

[Sirius Glass]

So for what it is worth I'd say don't get a Crown and Speed Graphic. In 1998 when large format equipment was much more expensive getting a crown or speed graphic was definitely the right step towards getting into large format. IMHO get a field camera made by Intrepid, Toyo, Horseman, Anba Ikeda, or Tachihara. They will serve you better in the long run and are newer cameras with a wider range of movements. I was going to get an Intrepid 4x5 but stumbled onto an Anba Ikeda field camera for a good price. It's 2.6lbs and does everything I need to do with a wider range of movements, that I use regularly, than what I would have gotten from on of the graphics. Nothing wrong with Crown and Speed Graphics for what they are but why not take one small step forward and get a true field camera.


Also, my first post here. I was lurker but will be no longer.

I disagree. Crown and Speed Graphics allow the flexibility of photographing both hand held and as a view camera. There is a lot of fun using a press camera with flash bulbs; do not try that with a view camera. If one will not be shooting hand held then look at other cameras.

 

[Tubaphone27]

I disagree. Crown and Speed Graphics allow the flexibility of photographing both hand held and as a view camera. There is a lot of fun using a press camera with flash bulbs; do not try that with a view camera. If one will not be shooting hand held then look at other cameras.

If that's one of the person's requirements then absolutely, go for one of the Graphics. Horseman, Wista, and Linhof also made 4x5 cameras with rangefinders.