Sow's Ear

jjstafford · Jul 19, 2005

Vegans might want to skip out now.

The saying is "You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear", but I'll place a gentleman's bet that Kodak makes it's gelatin from exactly that. Takers?

c6h6o3 · Jul 19, 2005

jjstafford said:
Vegans might want to skip out now.

The saying is "You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear", but I'll place a gentleman's bet that Kodak makes it's gelatin from exactly that. Takers?

At least during my lifetime, Eastman Kodak has been (and I believe still is) the world's largest purchaser of cow bones. They use them to make gelatin.

As to porcine bones, I have no idea. What's your point?

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 19, 2005

Can you make a silk purse out of a Wratten #51 filter?

bobfowler · Jul 19, 2005

David A. Goldfarb said:
Can you make a silk purse out of a Wratten #51 filter?

No, you need a #47 and a #58.

Gay Larson · Jul 19, 2005

If it bothers you, don't eat any jello

bobfowler · Jul 19, 2005

Gay Larson said:
If it bothers you, don't eat any jello

"There's always room for Jello"

hehehe

Claire Senft · Jul 19, 2005

I will take that bet at even odds for $3.00.

bobfowler · Jul 19, 2005

Claire Senft said:
I will take that bet at even odds for $3.00.

A rather interesting (albeit somewhat disgusting) read.

jjstafford · Jul 19, 2005

I owe Claire $3.

Would you accept payment as Nelson, Wisconsin ice cream?

Bighead · Jul 19, 2005

No wonder I get hate mail from PETA once or twice a year.... They've seen how much film I go through.....

Claire Senft · Jul 19, 2005

Absolutely. However, I want to eat it in person. One cone for me...one cone for you. I will tell you when.

c6h6o3 · Jul 19, 2005

The unannounced change in grade 2 Azo a few years back (longer development times, less contrast) was due to the change in the gelatin formula forced upon Kodak by the change in the quality of the cow bones. Hideous though it is to think about, it's essential to the process of making both film and paper.

dancqu · Jul 19, 2005

In two words, beef bones is correct. Pork is also used.
I found a wealth of gelatin information via the WWW.
Seems it also goes very well with ink jet papers. Dan

jim appleyard · Jul 19, 2005

Bighead said:
No wonder I get hate mail from PETA once or twice a year.... They've seen how much film I go through.....

I'll bet a lot of those folks eat Jello and don't realize where it comes from.

fparnold · Jul 19, 2005

Maybe, but seeing the number of questionable alternatives being pushed, I think they're becoming aware.

More seriously, If they could use nitrocellulose in the old days, isn't there a modern synthetic polymer that could be used instead? Is this a matter of inertia, i.e. they figure they'll be out of film before they'd recoup the costs of reengineering their emulsions to use the alternative, or that the organic functionalities in gelatin are currently too hard to reproduce on that scale for consistent quality?

jjstafford · Jul 19, 2005

Claire Senft said:
Absolutely. However, I want to eat it in person. One cone for me...one cone for you. I will tell you when.

It's a deal! Just as soon as I get the car running again. It's been stored for thee years.

Claire Senft · Jul 19, 2005

As long as your buying I will drive.

Flotsam · Jul 20, 2005

Mmmmmm... Sows Ear flavored Jell-O [drool]

fschifano · Jul 20, 2005

fparnold said:
More seriously, If they could use nitrocellulose in the old days, isn't there a modern synthetic polymer that could be used instead? Is this a matter of inertia, i.e. they figure they'll be out of film before they'd recoup the costs of reengineering their emulsions to use the alternative, or that the organic functionalities in gelatin are currently too hard to reproduce on that scale for consistent quality?

Nitrocellulose was used for the support in the old days. The gelatin silver suspension (it's not really an emulsion even though we call it that) was coated onto that. Today we use different and more stable plastics for the support, but the gelatin silver light sensitive layer is still with us.

magic823 · Jul 20, 2005

Actually gelatine is a pretty amazing protein. There really isn't anything like it for photography. There is a whole chapter about it in Haist's "Modern Photographic Processing".

fparnold · Jul 20, 2005

Ach! Thanks for the correction (never post too late in the day). I had the emulsion and the base confused. I'll have to go read that chapter.

The question, however, does remain; isn't there something other than gelatin that could be made consistently? I suppose with the current fear of cholesterol, having EK corner the world market on Egg White isn't going to be a real option.

jjstafford · Jul 20, 2005

fparnold said:
Ach! Thanks for the correction (never post too late in the day). I had the emulsion and the base confused. I'll have to go read that chapter.

The question, however, does remain; isn't there something other than gelatin that could be made consistently? I suppose with the current fear of cholesterol, having EK corner the world market on Egg White isn't going to be a real option.

Is it not a moot point? Kodak is going out of business, and so demand in the USA for the particular gelatin will plummet, the suppliers will probably go under as another obsolete industry.

dancqu · Jul 21, 2005

jjstafford said:
Is it not a moot point? Kodak is going out of business,
and so demand in the USA for the particular gelatin will
plummet, the suppliers will probably go under as
another obsolete industry.

I'm sure the market for gelatin will increase. It is a sizing
ingredient. Firms are competing for the sized ink jet paper
market. Perhaps Kodak's gelatin facility will thrive. Dan

Donald Qualls · Jul 21, 2005

And don't forget that the vast bulk of gelatin production is still for food -- it's not just used in gelatin desserts, there's gelatin in lots of candies and other food products.

Gelatin was readily available (as hide glue) when gelatin emulsions were invented. It'll be available (as fingernail strenghtening supplements and desserts, if nothing else) when we have to make our own glass plates.

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 21, 2005

I've made my own aspic from scratch and I sometimes make my own beef and chicken stock, so gelatin isn't that hard to come by. I figure anything they could make in the nineteenth century shouldn't be impossible to make in my kitchen.

Sow's Ear

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