Soviet lenses (P6 mount)

[Analogski]

Hi,

I’m looking to add another lens to my Kiev-60 system. I already own several Zeiss lenses, but I’d like to complement them with some Soviet lenses for a variety of photography, mainly portraits and nature.

I’m currently considering the Arsat fisheye, the Vega-12B, and the Vega-28B.
I’d be interested to hear your experiences with these lenses. Which of them offers the best balance between image quality and price, in your opinion?

Thanks

 

[Alexander6x6]

Lenses with P6 bayonet are marked with cyrillic letter "Б" or latin letter "C", whereas the K88 bayonet with cyrillic "B".

1. Zodiak-8 is the must have lens.

2. Arsat 55mm PC lens. Hard to find but this is excellent lens for architecture with floating lens element and shift movements.

3. I would recommend Volna-3 instead of old fashioned Vega-12. Personally I did not see any difference between Volna-3 and Biometar 80 (I have Schneider Kreuznach version) in performance. With Volna-3 you may focus much closer than with Biometar 80.

4. Vega-28 ist my favorite all-round lens. Very compact short tele-lens and superior to Biometar 120.

5. Calejnar-3 150mm and Telear-5 250mm are very good performers. In terms of bokeh the Calejnar-3 is outstanding.

6. Tair-33 - excellent portrait lens, unfortunately only with K88 mount.

7. Arsat 500mm APO - very compact long tele lens with floating lens element. Extremely rare and very expensive.

 

[itsdoable]

I have and use all 3 of those lenses.

The Arsat/Zodiak 3.5/30mm fisheye is... well the only fisheye you can get in P6. It's good, not as good as the Distagon, but quite reasonable.

My copy of the Vega-12 is not great, wide open it is only sharp in the center, at f/8 it reasonable, but still soft in the corners.

The Vega-28 is quite reasonable and compact, but I prefer the Biometar 2.8/120, it's a little more consistent across the field and has smoother bokeh.

Keep in mind there is a fair amount of variability with copies of these lenses, I have several Volna-3's, and they range from good across the field and aperture range to poor like the Vega-12 copy I have.

 

[Analogski]

Thanks a lot for the reactions thus far!
It really helps me.

For starters I think I'll look into the Volna-3. Look some up on eBay.

The Vega 28 also caught my attention, but it's really expensive and I already own the monstrously big Biometar, so I don't know if it's worth investing in one...

 

[loccdor]

Know that when you are looking at the Soviet lenses (you exclude Zeiss from Soviet but these were also being produced in a Soviet country) the experiences of a single user may vary greatly from the average depending on what quality of copy they happened to get.

Also note that if you buy these lenses from a country which is currently at war, you may find that the seller has other things on their mind than giving you the best copy of the lens (and that is understandable).

If you buy the fisheye, it's better to spend more on the one with the best coatings, the older one flares a lot and it doesn't look very nice when it does.

The 45mm Mir lens is not very sharp wide open compared to the Flektogon but it's fine stopped down. However, mine had a recurring problem with the aperture pin even after a repair from a technician.

I prefer the Volna-3's bokeh to the Biometar 80mm. It is however a little less sharp at the wide apertures. Needs at least 2 stop-downs for landscape use, and probably 3, for fully sharp corners. I have the multicoated version and have learned to love that lens. But I'm also a lover of interesting aberrations.

 

[1957ExaktaVarexIIa]

To be precise, the former GDR up to autumn 1989 was a communist-ruled country, but not a Soviet one. According to the late Henry Scherer, the problem with Soviet lenses was the wide variation in quality. It seems to me that the lenses from Jena were considerably more consistent and better.

 

[Sanug]

Don't forget: Most of the soviet lenses have single layer coating only and tend to flare. There are only a few MC coated lenses on the market. The newer Carl Zeiss Jena lenses are multi coated, superior quality, and easy to find. I see no reason to go for the inferior soviet lenses.

I owned the MIR 45mm because I needed something wider than the 50mm Flektogon. How disappointing! The distortion, contrast and sharpness in the corners were too bad. Never again.

The 30mm Arsat/Zodiac fisheye... well, it is heavy, bulky, and I rarely used it. I don't like the fisheye effect at all. If you want to buy one, take care that the complete filter set is included, especially the UV filter is mandatory. Without an attached rear filter, the lens is not working correctly (focus to infinity, sharpness in the corners).

For portraits, the 150mm Kaleinar may be interesting. But there is no need if you own the 2.8/180mm CZJ Sonnar.

 

[Alexander6x6]

d Don't forget: Most of the soviet lenses have single layer coating only and tend to flare. There are only a few MC coated lenses on the market.

Well, this is not correct. Zodiak-8, Arsat 55 PC, Volna-3, Vega-28, Calejnar-3, Telear-5 and Arsat 500 APO are multicoated.

I owned the MIR 45mm because I needed something wider than the 50mm Flektogon. How disappointing! The distortion, contrast and sharpness in the corners were too bad. Never again.

Unfortunately, your copy of Mir-26 was not properly assembled and adjusted. The Super-Rotator 45 was based on this lens allowing 12mm shift together with 8° tilt without vignetting on 6x4.5 frame.

The 30mm Arsat/Zodiac fisheye... well, it is heavy, bulky, and I rarely used it. I don't like the fisheye effect at all.

Unlike you, I prefer shooting with a fisheye lens. Once you learn how to properly align the lens with the horizon, you can take pictures without the typical "fisheye effect."

If you want to buy one, take care that the complete filter set is included, especially the UV filter is mandatory. Without an attached rear filter, the lens is not working correctly (focus to infinity, sharpness in the corners).

True, the rear filter is the part of lens scheme. There will be no infinity without filter glas.

For portraits, the 150mm Kaleinar may be interesting. But there is no need if you own the 2.8/180mm CZJ Sonnar.

Calejnar-3 is more compact/less bulky. Unlike Sonnar, it does not have chromatic aberrations in out-of-focus area.

 

[blee1996]

Any opinion about the Mir 38B 65/3.5 lens?

I like the Arsat/Zodiak 30mm fisheye: it has a unique perspective that are fun for certain topics.

 

[loccdor]

Any opinion about the Mir 38B 65/3.5 lens?

I looked into it when I was building my system and everything I saw online said it had poorer performance than the 45mm. My 45mm was perfectly usable, and I even took some shots I liked with it wide open, the aperture pin was my only complaint. However I wouldn't be surprised that there are much worse samples out there.

Wide Open:

Heavy Crop at f/8:

f/11:

 

[Analogski]

Thanks again for the replies! I love to learn more about those lenses. I have a Kiev-60 where I want to put the soviet lenses on. My ARAX-60 is equipped with the three Zeiss Jena lenses.

I'm looking for the fisheye lens, but man.... The prices went up! Two years ago I bought one for 130 euro. It couldn't focus to infinity. Now I know it's because it missed the rear lens filters ... Unfortunately I sold it. Now.... They go easy for 200+ euro. Many of them also come without the filters.

Besides this one, I think I'll go for the Volna 3 and maybe in the future I'll look into the Vega 28.

I really appreciate the help here. Thanks!

 

[itsdoable]

Any opinion about the Mir 38B 65/3.5 lens?

I like the Arsat/Zodiak 30mm fisheye: it has a unique perspective that are fun for certain topics.

My Mir-38 is optically good, but mechanically poor, it's the newer design with the rubber focus ring. The helicoil is fine and smooth, but the indicated aperture is off at the open end of the range as the internal aperture cam is miss-shapen. The auto-aperture mechanism is also finicky and not adjustable. The older all metal versions may be better mechanically though. Maybe.

As opposed to @loccdor, I find my Mir-38 optically better than my 2 Mir-26's. My Mir-26's never quite sharpen up to the level of my Mir-38, but as @loccdor said, they are still quite usable.

As usual, sample variation is large.

Yes, the 3.5/30 fisheye has gone up a lot in price - it's a bit of a specialist lens, so unless you have a project/use for it, I find it does not get a lot of use. I picked then up back before they got hyped (being one of the few MF fisheyes that were affordable), and converted one over to Hasselblad mount.

 

[Sanug]

Well, this is not correct. Zodiak-8, Arsat 55 PC, Volna-3, Vega-28, Calejnar-3, Telear-5 and Arsat 500 APO are multicoated.

As far as I know, this is only true if you have the "MC" version. All lenses without "MC" have the single coating. And you will find much more of the single coated lenses at the second hand market than the "MC" lenses.

 

[reddesert]

I have a Zodiak 30mm fisheye lens, and as everyone says, you absolutely need a rear filter or it won't focus to infinity. The optical path length in glass is different from that in air, so when you have the filter in place, the converging beam comes to a focus a little further back. The filter is about 1.5mm thick glass so the focus offset is about 0.5mm.

I assume that the lens was computed with the filter as part of the optical design (of course), so even if you could use it without the filter, there could be off-axis aberrations, although I don't know how serious they would be.

The filter isn't a standard mount, rather it has a metal ring projecting forward with a female thread. I have a scheme for improvising a replacement; IIRC, I think you could screw a 37mm-39mm step-up ring onto the lens threads, and then screw a 37mm filter onto the ring. You would need to make sure it doesn't stick too far back, so that it clears the reflex mirror. I can't guarantee this would work, but putting it out there for anyone with a Zodiak fisheye missing the rear filter. I suppose it might also work to use two 39mm filters, one with the glass removed and another screwed onto that.

 

[itsdoable]

I have a Zodiak 30mm fisheye lens, and as everyone says, you absolutely need a rear filter or it won't focus to infinity.

<snip>

If you cannot find or adapt a filter, you can re-adjust the infinity stop so it will focus to infinity without the rear filter. This is necessary when you convert it to a Hasselblad mount as the mirror will hit the filter. I have not noticed a change in the aberrations, but I'm sure they are there if you look close enough.

Well, this is not correct. Zodiak-8, Arsat 55 PC, Volna-3, Vega-28, Calejnar-3, Telear-5 and Arsat 500 APO are multicoated.

<snip>

As far as I know, this is only true if you have the "MC" version. All lenses without "MC" have the single coating. And you will find much more of the single coated lenses at the second hand market than the "MC" lenses.

The above listed lenses all have a green reflection on at least one of the lens surfaces, indicating some form of Multi-Coating on that element (I don't have the Arsat 55 or the 500, so I don't know about those). As a general rule, blue and yellow reflections are typically simple coatings, a green reflection is only obtainable by multi coating (as are the deeper blue and orange reflections). Reflections from multi-coated elements are also less (dimmer) than on the single coated surfaces. But not all multi-coating is the same, early multi-coating does not transmit as much light as the current ones, which use more layers. I believe all the above lenses have some multi-coated elements, but nothing like current optics. They have modest T-numbers and do flair.

 

[Alexander6x6]

As far as I know, this is only true if you have the "MC" version. All lenses without "MC" have the single coating. And you will find much more of the single coated lenses at the second hand market than the "MC" lenses.

This is incorrect because the only Zodiak-8 and Calejar-3 lenses were produced without an MC label. All of the other lenses I mentioned are multicoated.

Incidentally, the multicoating on the Calejnar-3 is just a nice option, not critical at all, unlike the Zodiak-8.

 

[Alexander6x6]

I have a Zodiak 30mm fisheye lens, and as everyone says, you absolutely need a rear filter or it won't focus to infinity. The optical path length in glass is different from that in air, so when you have the filter in place, the converging beam comes to a focus a little further back. The filter is about 1.5mm thick glass so the focus offset is about 0.5mm.

I assume that the lens was computed with the filter as part of the optical design (of course), so even if you could use it without the filter, there could be off-axis aberrations, although I don't know how serious they would be.

This is so called "compensating glas", which is a part of the optical scheme. The same filter has the Mamiya Z 37mm lens, which is also offered sometimes without it.

 

[Analogski]

This is incorrect because the only Zodiak-8 and Calejar-3 lenses were produced without an MC label. All of the other lenses I mentioned are multicoated.

Incidentally, the multicoating on the Calejnar-3 is just a nice option, not critical at all, unlike the Zodiak-8.

I've seen ik numerous posts something about the Calejnar. I just can't seem to find those lenses online. Can you share a link?

 

[Alexander6x6]

I've seen ik numerous posts something about the Calejnar. I just can't seem to find those lenses online. Can you share a link?

Calejnar-3 was an official latin transcription of Калейнар-3 150/2.8 lens.
You can find it as Kaleinar, Arsat or Hartblei 150.

Kaleinar 3B 2,8 / 150 mm Objektiv für KIEV 88 | eBay.de

Biete ein Kaleinar 3B 2,8 / 150 mm Objektiv, speziell konzipiert für den KIEV 88 Anschluss. Das Objektiv von Kaleinar, bekannt für seine robuste Bauweise und Zuverlässigkeit, ist ein unverzichtbares Werkzeug für jeden ernsthaften Fotografen, der Wert auf Qualität und Präzision legt.

www.ebay.de

Grab this one and use it with the P6-K88 adapter ring. You will never regret it.

 

[Sanug]

Arsenal Kaleinar 1:2,8/150 mm (Kiev 88) - Deutsches Kameramuseum

Das Kaleinar (russisch: Калейнар 3 B) 1:2,8/150 mm ist ein Objektiv des sowjetischen Herstellers Arsenal in Kiev aus den 1980er Jahren für das Bajonett der Mittelformatkamera Kiev 88. Es besteht aus vier Linsen in drei Gruppen. Das Objektiv wiegt etwa 1.100 Gramm, die kürzeste...

kameramuseum.de

 

[Alexander6x6]

I've seen ik numerous posts something about the Calejnar. I just can't seem to find those lenses online. Can you share a link?

 

[Alexander6x6]

I have and use all 3 of those lenses.

The Arsat/Zodiak 3.5/30mm fisheye is... well the only fisheye you can get in P6. It's good, not as good as the Distagon, but quite reasonable.

Do you mean the F-Distagon lens for Hasselblad cameras? I bought mine on eBay in 'very good' condition for €3,000. How much did you pay for yours?

 

[itsdoable]

Do you mean the F-Distagon lens for Hasselblad cameras? I bought mine on eBay in 'very good' condition for €3,000. How much did you pay for yours?

Was that a CF version? I don't own a F-Distagon for Hasselblad, but a collector/dealer friend of mine had a C version which he was willing to sell to me (I can't remember what the price was, but it was less than €3,000). I borrowed and tested it for a while, compared it to the Zodiak and Arsat 3.5/30, and decided that for the price and my usage, the Arsat was good enough at 1/10th of the price. But that was before I got more involved with IR photography, so maybe I should reconsider ...

 

[Alexander6x6]

Was that a CF version? I don't own a F-Distagon for Hasselblad, but a collector/dealer friend of mine had a C version which he was willing to sell to me (I can't remember what the price was, but it was less than €3,000). I borrowed and tested it for a while, compared it to the Zodiak and Arsat 3.5/30, and decided that for the price and my usage, the Arsat was good enough at 1/10th of the price. But that was before I got more involved with IR photography, so maybe I should reconsider ...

It is a CFi version from the latest generation with the serial number 89XXXXX. Although the lens is very good corrected for chromatic aberrations on digital sensor, there is still a tiny purple fringe shift at the edges, which can be eliminated by the applying the dedicated lens profile in Phocus software from Hasselblad. In addition, the software can also automatically remove the fisheye effect.

 

[itsdoable]

It is a CFi version from the latest generation with the serial number 89XXXXX. Although the lens is very good corrected for chromatic aberrations on digital sensor, there is still a tiny purple fringe shift at the edges, which can be eliminated by the applying the dedicated lens profile in Phocus software from Hasselblad. In addition, the software can also automatically remove the fisheye effect.

CFi - nice! What size digital sensor are you using, I've mostly used the fisheye with film, as you loose the 180 FoV with digital. If you go out to the corner of 54x54 image, you'll probably find more aberrations with digital.

Even with film, you could see the difference between the F-Distagon (C) and the Arsat, noticeable in the center, and much more noticeable at the corners. The optical projection was also different.