Source of chemicals in Netherlands/Europe?

[titrisol]

Anyone knows where can I get cyanotype kits and or chemicals in the Netherlands or in Europe???

 

[cje2002]

In the UK, I've used Silverprint http://www.silverprint.co.uk/ before and nova before - they do cyanotype http://www.novadarkroom.com/product/191/Alternative_Processes.html

I guess if you find somewhere more local you will save on delivery costs.

Good luck

Chris

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Anyone knows where can I get cyanotype kits and or chemicals in the Netherlands or in Europe???

shipped from Hamburg,Germany!Suvatlar is a very reliable supplier and has almost all photographic chemicals, at least all the ones I need.Good luck. feel free to tell him i'd send you.

 

[titrisol]

Thank you, I havent checked this thread in a while
I left Europe in 2012 and I'm back in the Americas

 

[vasya1945]

What is the current state of chemicals availability in the Netherlands? If anyone knows...

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Anyone knows where can I get cyanotype kits and or chemicals in the Netherlands or in Europe???

I get my raw chemicals (no kits from)fototechnik@suvatlar.de in Hamburg Germany look at his website for offerings and price list; highly recommended!

 

[koraks]

Welcome to Photrio, @vasya1945 !

What is the current state of chemicals availability in the Netherlands? If anyone knows...

Depends on what you're looking for. There are a few dedicated NL sellers of chemistry (not necessarily photo chemistry specifically) such as labstuff.nl, labshop.nl, antonides.nl There used to be some that have since gone out of business and/or have cut their offering of photo-relevant stuff, such as hekserij.nl, which still retails some stuff that's usable for cyanotype, etc. but they've stopped selling e.g. pyrocatechol.

In the alt. process domain, the European landscape is quite diverse; there's good sellers in Italy, France, Germany, Poland etc. and shipping rates are often comparable to NL-domestic - so don't restrict the search to just Dutch sources.

I could start typing a list of sources, but frankly it would be too long, so the question really is what you're looking for. From this you can also deduce that looking for a "one stop shop" isn't all that sensible. Yes, Suvatlar (mentioned by @RalphLambrecht ) comes close. I've never used him because he's generally not competitively priced (but he's not outrageously expensive, either).

 

[250swb]

To answer the original question from 2010 in 2023 you can get Fotospeed Cyanotype kits direct from Fotospeed

https://fotospeed.com/cyanotype-process-kit.html

Generally chemicals can be found on eBay but I don't know of any one company who stock a wide variety for mixing home made potions.

 

[koraks]

you can get Fotospeed Cyanotype kits direct from Fotospeed

For people in The Netherlands (and Europe) wanting to do cyanotype this is a really expensive option that IMO doesn't make much sense given the good availability of the common chemistry in that kit. Importing it from the US will also result in import duties and taxes. The actual amount paid by a Dutch customer would be around:
$45 for the kit
$15 shipping
$15 import duties/inspection costs (depending on carrier)
$13 VAT
Total ca. $88 - conversion to € depending on exchange rates and payment platform selected (for the purchase + shipping cost).

That's a lot of money for a 50ml bottle of sensitizer, a coating rod, some citric acid and a few sheets of paper.

There are several channels in The Netherlands that also retail cyanotype kits. They're priced similarly to the Fotospeed option (but without the import-related overhead). In my view, they're all priced rather exorbitantly given that they're basically just a few bottles of common as muck, cheap chemicals. Here's one that's not quite as outrageous as some others: https://print-art-read.nl/product/diy-cyanotype-kit-navulling/ They charge €20 for 2x100ml. They also have a starter kit (https://print-art-read.nl/product/diy-cyanotype-kit-papier/) that offers far more bang for the buck as the Fotospeed option at roughly the same list price.

 

[vasya1945]

could start typing a list of sources, but frankly it would be too long, so the question really is what you're looking for.

Hi! I am not that experienced in manual printing so I am not 100% sure where I will end up. Now I am leaning towards alt processes. To something simple and non-toxic. What I would like to try is the new cyanotype and cuprotypes. For the latter I need ferric ammonium citrate, red blood salt, copper sulphate and sodium thiosulphate. I am concerned about FAC. In my country it is of poor quality at chem stores, the good one is sold by photography shops. Is it like this here? Should I look for photo supplier somewhere in UK or Germany? Maybe I will need tannic or gallic acid to tone cyanotypes if cuprotype does not work out. In general I see that prices for raw chemicals are pretty high in chem shops. And not everything can be sold in small amounts.

Speaking of classical darkroom realistically most of it is covered by pre-mixed chemicals. The only exception might be lith developer. We use a variation of some Kodak recipe which is called Samarin's developer. It has to be mixed by hand. I am worried that some components like hydroquinon might be restricted for general public. Now it is more of a theoretical question, just to get an idea of the landcape. I am not sure if get to do lith anytime soon, alt processes will keep me busy for quite some time.

 

[vasya1945]

Here's one that's not quite as outrageous as some others: https://print-art-read.nl/product/diy-cyanotype-kit-navulling/

I think Jacuard from Amazon will be a bit cheaper.
And if anyone is considering print-art-read. Their transparencies did not work for me. I would recommend to buy the minimum amount possible and test.

 

[koraks]

In my country it is of poor quality at chem stores, the good one is sold by photography shops.

That's not my experience. Last time I ordered it from Labshop. I haven't tried this batch yet but it looked absolutely fine. Formerly I've used it from hekserij and it was just fine just as well. What are the quality concerns you have on this chemical? It's a very common compound and it's not known for quality issues. It virtually always comes as a finely divided, muted green powder that dissolves readily and without residue.

hekserij is nice for small volume orders, but price/gram is on the high side. Not sure if they also have the copper sulfate and sodium thiosulfate, but I suspect they do.
labshop is a dependable shop catering especially to small businesses but will also retail to consumers AFAIK. I think they have everything you asked for. Delivery is quick and prices are very acceptable.
labstuff is the cheapest of the lot, but you'll have to wait some time for your order to arrive. They also carry everything you mentioned.
There's also laboratoriumdiscounter.nl.

Maybe I will need tannic or gallic acid to tone cyanotypes

Tannic acid; try brewery stores. I think I got it at braumarkt.com (German shop, ships cheaply to NL) last time I tried it. Hekserij also have it and no doubt both labshop and labstuff as well. I never really enjoyed toning cyanotypes, though. Gallic acid is pretty much the same story. Simply google for:
"looizuur kopen" (looizuur = tannic acid)
"galluszuur kopen" (galluszuur = gallic acid)
You'll find a variety of shops.

I am worried that some components like hydroquinon might be restricted for general public.

You can order hydroquinone from a variety of sources, including labstuff. Its sale is not restricted AFAIK. It's commonly present in a variety of skin products (which I find ridiculous, but that's how it is). It's fairly cheap.

Samarin's developer

I've never heard of this; do you have a formula to share? Perhaps it's known under other names.

What I usually do is break down my shopping list and start searching for each chemical at a time. Then compile a list of suppliers and try to combine as many items with the some one or two suppliers, and then order. The more common shops for the items you mentioned I've listed above. You can also get all of this from abroad, but I usually don't bother with the common stuff that you're looking for.

 

[koraks]

I think Jacuard from Amazon will be a bit cheaper.
And if anyone is considering print-art-read. Their transparencies did not work for me. I would recommend to buy the minimum amount possible and test.

Maybe. I never bothered with the cyanotype kits because they basically all charge IMO ridiculous prices for a small amount of common, cheap chemistry.

Transparencies; try silksreen transparency film. This kind works fine: https://www.zeefdruksupply.nl/websh...il/246/newman-inkjet-film-a4---50-sheets.html
The main limitation is if you try to deposit too much ink onto it. It's not a problem for cyanotype and Van Dyke etc. that don't require a lot of density. You may run into trouble with salted paper, which requires >2.2logD density. In that case, try Fixxons (available from the US) or Pictorico OHP (also available in EU, but generally more costly than US-sourced Fixxons). I mostly use the screenprinting transparency stuff which is cheap and works just fine for most purposes.

 

[koraks]

One more thing:

What I would like to try is the new cyanotype

Keep in mind there are three (at least) cyanotype processes:
* Classic; this is the old, well-known combination of ferric ammonium citrate and potassium ferricyanide
* 'New'; this is Mike Ware's invention from 15 years or so ago, which uses ferric ammonium oxalate (from e.g. laboratoriumdiscounter) and ferricyanide, and you need to do the synthesis of the sensitizer yourself, which involes a purification step. Not very difficult to do. It requires totally different negatives than classic cyanotype. Classic requires something like 1.2logD, New likes something around 2.2logD (!!!)
* "Simple"; again a Mike Ware invention, even more recent. Haven't tried it, but I understand it involves two sensitizers, with an inherently different contrast, which you can mix in any desired ratio to get a 'variable contrast' cyanotype. I'm hazy on the details as I've never used it, but it's been discussed here and of course on Mike's excellent website.

@Mike Ware is occasionally active on this forum and has proved very helpful indeed many times in answering people's questions about the ferric processes.

 

[vasya1945]

What are the quality concerns you have on this chemical?

Bad ferric ammonium citrate is partly reacted I think. Working solution is greenish from the start and stains paper. And the chemical itself is more brown than green. We have local shops that make alt process kits and they synthesize FAC from precursors because it is cheaper than delivering good one from abroad.

Tannic acid; try brewery stores

I tried tannins from breweries but they had some staining effect. It might be that all this plant based toning is not quite stable and reproducible. That is the reason I am looking at cuprotypes or maybe Van dyke.

've never heard of this; do you have a formula to share?

I googled origins of Samarin developer and it is just Kodak D-9 separated into 4 componets. You are supposed to alter the proportions slightly to adjust tone, contrast and grain. I don't think it is special in any way, otherwise you would know. My experience is mixed. I had more papers that did not work than that that worked. But we mostly try some 30-40 years old expired papers so maybe it is normal. New papers from Foma did not quite work as well.

This kind works fine: https://www.zeefdruksupply.nl/websh...il/246/newman-inkjet-film-a4---50-sheets.html

I already tried https://www.zeefdruksupply.nl Their films work forcyanotype and they have a3 size too. The film is a bit thick so it eats some light.

I will check the chem stores you mentioned, thanks for your help.

 

[koraks]

Bad ferric ammonium citrate is partly reacted I think

Ok, yeah, the solution should be fairly bright green. If it's brown, it's not good. I've not had this happen with material from e.g. hekserij. In fact, all FAC I've used so far was fine, but the solution doesn't last indefinitely, it grows mold easily and it does turn brown over time. The powder seems stable, but I don't trust the solution if it's older than a few months. I always test it with Van Dyke; if the sensitizer throws down a brown precipitate upon mixing, it's time to make some new FAC solution.

I agree on the tannic acid and staining. I've not yet found a good toner for cyanotype that doesn't stain at all. Van Dyke etc. are just easier to work with if you want other hues than cyano blue.

For lith there are many options. Dividing the components works well. Look into the chemistry of Moersch for inspiration, and the Ryuji Suzuki formula. Combining the knowledge from both I made my own chemistry and that worked fine for me. I mostly used Fomatone, fresh. Old Forte Polywarmtone was phenomenal as well of course.

Yes, the screen printing film absorbs a little lught, but it's not too bad in my experience. Fixxons isn't much better in this respect, but can take a bit more ink.

 

[250swb]

For people in The Netherlands (and Europe) wanting to do cyanotype this is a really expensive option that IMO doesn't make much sense given the good availability of the common chemistry in that kit. Importing it from the US will also result in import duties and taxes. The actual amount paid by a Dutch customer would be around:
$45 for the kit
$15 shipping
$15 import duties/inspection costs (depending on carrier)
$13 VAT
Total ca. $88 - conversion to € depending on exchange rates and payment platform selected (for the purchase + shipping cost).

That's a lot of money for a 50ml bottle of sensitizer, a coating rod, some citric acid and a few sheets of paper.

There are several channels in The Netherlands that also retail cyanotype kits. They're priced similarly to the Fotospeed option (but without the import-related overhead). In my view, they're all priced rather exorbitantly given that they're basically just a few bottles of common as muck, cheap chemicals. Here's one that's not quite as outrageous as some others: https://print-art-read.nl/product/diy-cyanotype-kit-navulling/ They charge €20 for 2x100ml. They also have a starter kit (https://print-art-read.nl/product/diy-cyanotype-kit-papier/) that offers far more bang for the buck as the Fotospeed option at roughly the same list price.

I wasn't trying to imply anybody had to buy from Fotospeed, just that the original OP's question had an answer one way or another ffs. You get your calculator out, go for it, and count the pennies.

 

[vasya1945]

I've not yet found a good toner for cyanotype that doesn't stain at all.

I had such a toner from darkroom store that mixes alt printing kits. I think they mentioned that they use chemically pure compounds. Concetrate was brown, working solution was only slightly colored like very diluted tea. It worked really fast and had slightly purple tone from which I assume that gallic acid was involved.

 

[koraks]

That sounds intriguing. If you remember what it was and where it came from, I'd be interested to hear more about it.
@Andrew O'Neill appears to be getting low/no staining and a purple hue as well with tannic acid, if memory serves. Perhaps he can chime in.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

No stain. I bleach the image out fully or partly, depending on tone I want, then redevelop in a strong bath of Tannic Acid.

 

[koraks]

Yes, I saw that video about a year (?) ago where you ended up with the purple-blue cyanotype. I got myself some tannic acid after that, but got lots of staining. I agree with @vasya1945 that the composition/purity of the material probably played a role in that. I never looked into it very deeply, I admit.

 

[Philippe T]

In 2023, you can order from this site in France with complete confidence: https://www.disactis-photochimie.fr/livraison

 

[titrisol]

I get my raw chemicals (no kits from)fototechnik@suvatlar.de in Hamburg Germany look at his website for offerings and price list; highly recommended!

Thanks Ralph!
I moved to the US in 2012