Source for Macbeth Densitometer manuals &/or parts?

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Neanderman

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Well, it comes down to being more than just a pin to pin conversion. The IEEE-488 is a parallel datastream whereas RS-232 is serial.

For a laptop connection, your best bet may well be something like this: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=9136.

Unfortunately, I don't think you're going to find an inexpensive solution.

Ed
 

Neanderman

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Mr Bill

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Well- I sought confirmation from several angles and it seems things are straightened out.
I used Mr. Bill's data to cross check results ...

My lowest values were obtained when the complementary color to that indicated by Mr Bill, was set.
According to the comments about RGB and CMY being sort of interchangable, perhaps this is a non-issue.

I just came across an old Macbeth user's manual for a reflection unit - they note that the colored dots on the turret are the same color as the sample to be read, "for convenience." Also, they confirm that the actual filter is the complement - that is, the cyan-dot turret position is used for a cyan test-patch, but it uses a red filter, etc. This is essentially what I said in a previous post.

One might wonder why "for convenience," well, at one time it was common for process control strips (paper process) to have separate cyan, magenta, and yellow test patches. So the color code helps the neophyte take the readings properly. Still, when it's time to plot results on a chart, it's traditional to translate back to red, green, and blue (see Kodak's Z-manuals, for process control, for confirmation of this).

So, just to confirm, even though Macbeth unit has cyan, magenta, and yellow on the turret, it is still taking the readings commonly referred to as red, green, and blue. And it should be acceptable to say it either way, ie, "I just measured the cyan dye density" is the same thing as "I just took a red-filter reading." But if you're talking about process control charts, it's always about the "red plot" (or green, or blue) never cyan.

By the way, I took a close look at your readings. I had thought you could need to use the Macbeth card as your calibration tool - had you done so, then the white patch would necessarily read whatever you made it "calibrate" to. Since your yellow reading (ie, blue-filter) is so high, I presume that you calibrated the machine in another manner, then took readings of the card. IF this is correct, AND IF your white patch truly is yellowish, then everything seems to be normal.

Also, I re-read my chart with another instrument, which can translate into density values for the different status systems. Status E and T both have recognizeable color signatures, which your machine does not show. Therefore, I'm pretty confident that yours is a status A, which is what you want for reading color prints.
My Light is quite yellowish... is this normal?
Are they generally useable till they die?
Or, are they supposed to be used for some % of their entire life?

In my experience, they have a very long life (much longer than a transmission densitometer), then will just go dead. But I don't think there should be a yellowish appearance. You might want to have a look inside, if you're handy with these things.


So hopefully you have a good working machine to play with. I'm off for a long weekend, but will check back here Mon or Tues to see if anything new.
 
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Ray Rogers

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Neanderman,

Actually, I like the USB option...
The device pictured has male not the female connector...
since the cable I have has both (for daisy training) -

Would this possibly work just by connecting the back side (female)
to the converter mentioned above?

Well that is one hella va cable!... I am SURE someone will throw one away
(or out to ebay) without knowing what it is....

But till then - lets look for another option!

Since the cable is attached to the densitometer...
it must have been intended for a computer that took that cable...
Old computers, if you can find them, might be pretty cheap these days.

What computers had these on them as standard features?
Were they pretty common?
What are my chances of finding a functioning computer
with excel and a usb or at least a FDD?

In anycase, thanks for enlightening me about these gems!
 
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Neanderman

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Well, that's part of the problem. These weren't common as standard features. Wikipedia says a "few" early Commodore computers used them for things like floppy drives, but they didn't use the Centronics-type connector like your densitometer has.

By far the biggest user of GPIB was HP, who really invented it. It was the common interface used on its scientific instruments, so, naturally, it sold (again...) "a few" models of computers with ports.

And, of course, with older computers, you're stuck with older software, which can be harder to find than the hardware.

I would add, too, that diving into something like this is not for the faint of heart. You're getting pretty close to hardcore geekdom here. Odds are that you're not going to find something that is 'plug and play' -- you might even have to write some computer code. And only you know if you're up to that.

Ed
 
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Ray Rogers

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To update this thread:

1.
Thanks to everyone for your input.

2.
I hope Mr. Bill had a nice long weekend!

3.
The Setting/Orientation issue is nearly completely resolved. What remains is the fabrication of a substitute disk, and its permenant attachment to the reading head/arm. Temporaralily I have fashioned one out of black art cardboard... a colorless, clear, tight fitting piece of acryll wedged into the "hat" might even suffice to make my cardboard fix longlasting....

4.
My current Speculative Thinking on the cable problem:
a. The Units came with RS232 compatibility.
b. The Units were sold with RS232 cables, for those who paid for that option.
c. The Units were sold with RC40-24PR cables, for those who paid for that option.
d. The Units referred to in (c) either
had the RS232 interface REPLACED with one for the GPIB/IE488/RC40-24PR cable
or
had an ADDITIONAL INTERFACE INSTALLED.

e. Looking inside of the unit, one with more knowlegde than myself, might be able to respond to (d)
and even suggest the next step needed to restore RS232 compatibility.

f.
I was told by the software developer that Macbeth sold the cables needed
and that they were not expensive!

g.
I called the current, local X-Rite rep and after a 60 second delay he called me back to say my densitometer is no longer supported and that "Macbeth" no longer exists. Several clues lead me to suspect that he did not have any hard info & that he had no desire to try and help out either.

I do think that here, as in other countries, there were more than one agent, repair station or what have you, so I will try to contact others that might have sold or serviced these units.

(The author of the software said he would look around for a solution as well.)

So, that is where the issue stands as of now.
If any of my assumptions in 4 (a-e) are faulty, please correct me/them.

Thanks,

Ray
 

Kirk Keyes

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Ray - before you spend a lot of time and your hard pressed cash into getting a cable/interface for your computer, make sure that your densitometer will calibrate and that it makes linear readings. No point in going through all that to find you have to spend more money on repairing a poorly functioning densitometer.

(Now if only I would follow my own advice on these sort of things...)
 

Kirk Keyes

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Also, check the X-rite web site as they offer colibration standards for transmission and refective densitometers. For transmission, I think older Macbeths used a "B&W" film that had a density of about 3.0 and the slope of each channel was adjusted to get that reading and then it was "calibrated".

Look around for a Noritsu DM-201 - they can read visual, red, green, and blue simultaneously and display all 4 readings at the same time. It's a huge time saver compared to having to calibrate the different channels one after the other. SO much faster with the Noritsu than my Macbeth TD-901.

Also check Stouffer's web site as they make some things that can work as well, and often cheaper than X-rite.

Anyone want to buy an old Macbeth densitometer for real cheap?
 
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Ray Rogers

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Ray - before you spend a lot of time and your hard pressed cash into getting a cable/interface for your computer, make sure that your densitometer will calibrate and that it makes linear readings....

Hi Kirk.

What do you mean by "make linear readings" & "calibrate" in this sentence?
How do you "make" sure?

I think I am fine, but your question suggests to me you might have a procedure or test in mind that I have not done. :confused:

FWIW, I do have the standard calibration reference that came with this model... and the adjustment knobs (zero & calibrate) appear to be functioning normally.

I will look for the Noritsu DM-201.
BTW, do you have a true "operator's manual" for yours?

In order to open mine up properly...
I need some insight on which screws to screw with!

As far as wanting to buy an old Macbeth densitometer for real cheap...
what cables does it come with?
(Perhaps you could detach the one I want before selling!)

Ray
 

Kirk Keyes

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Ray -

Here's a link to the owner's manual for the Noritsu DM-201:
http://www.keyesphoto.com/Noritsu DM-201 Manual.html

By making sure your calibration is linear, I mean that you calibrate the instrument according to the manufacturer's instructions, and then use a standard that has several areas of known density and you measure those areas and verify that you get readings of those areas that are within an acceptable difference from the known values.

I use a X-Rite transmission Calibration Step Wedge film with 4 areas on it. They are, with Visual readings, at 0.26, 1.50, 3.01, and 3.75 Density. I calibrate the Noristu at 0.00 D (with no film in the instrument) and then at the 3.01 "Hi Cal" area of the X-Rite film. I then read the other 3 "linearity" check areas to make sure it's a linear calibration - and that it accurate all the way across the calibratio range and not just at the 2 points I calibrated it (0.00 and 3.01).

You can't be certain that your readings are not biased high or low in between your calibration points without checking them with a known standard. X-Rite lists an error of +/- 0.02 D as acceptable for the range from 0.00 to 3.0 D.

The X-Rite film actually has certifited readings for not only visual readings, but red, green, and blue as well.

The X-Rite part number is 810-68. It's listed here on their web site:
https://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=1540
It lists for $75 USD.

By the way, you can get a reflection calibration plate from X-Rite as well. It has two calibration points on it and one linearity check point. It's enamalled steel and should last a lifetime!
 

Kirk Keyes

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My Macbeth did not have any cables with it.

Did I mention the Nortisu DM-201 has a built in RS-232C port as well as a built in dot-matrix printer!?
 
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