Source for CNC work

[barryjyoung]

Frey,
there are many hobby CNC forums and no, it's not terribly hard to build a machine, if you have an interest in it, email me off forum and I can point you in a few directions...


erie

Really? Not hard?

 

[epatsellis]

Not terribly, it's the same game as anything else, choose any 2 of fast, cheap or precise.

You can make a heck of a good machine with some extrusions from Techno Isel, servomotors, drives, and a couple of weeks work. Of course the choice of spindle is up to the builder, I have a Precise 1.75hp watercooled 40Krpm spindle that I use. I have sources for a 1.5 hp spindle that has a VFD built in, uses ER25 collets and costs about $1500.
That's generally the lowest end spindle I'd reccomend off the shelf. With some mods, a 3 1/2 hp Porter Cable can work, with upgraded bearings, a better cooling system and balancing.


erie

 

[barryjyoung]

Not terribly, it's the same game as anything else, choose any 2 of fast, cheap or precise.

You can make a heck of a good machine with some extrusions from Techno Isel, servomotors, drives, and a couple of weeks work. Of course the choice of spindle is up to the builder, I have a Precise 1.75hp watercooled 40Krpm spindle that I use. I have sources for a 1.5 hp spindle that has a VFD built in, uses ER25 collets and costs about $1500.
That's generally the lowest end spindle I'd reccomend off the shelf. With some mods, a 3 1/2 hp Porter Cable can work, with upgraded bearings, a better cooling system and balancing.


erie

That would be aluminum though. There is a reason they make industrial machines from materials that aren't aluminum.

 

[epatsellis]

oh I don't know, alot of the gantry machines are Aluminum, I've done some hybrids, either epoxycrete/al or steel/modular al superstructures, depends on where your needs fall. 99% of my customers (signshops) don't need sub thou accuracy. Heck, some machinist I've talked to will actually admit (reluctantly) to the hollowness of the .0001 accuracy of their machines in non temp. controlled shops, w/o coolant fed tools, leadscrews, etc. I've worked on some big, big iron (Okuma, Makino) but in reality outside of heavy, production manufacturing is it really needed? Can you hold tenths without temperature control and aggresive tooling and workpiece cooling?
(in my experience failure to account for coeff. of expansion errors swamp machine errors, by order of magnitudes)

erie

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Think again that if your parts could be manufactured from plastics If you want to produce camera parts . I think you can draw your part with cad cam program and you can get small quantity rapid prototyping parts from plastic for example epoxy. Or you can order a rapid prototyping mold for to produce your parts with carbon graphite powder and epoxy blend.
Rapid prototyping is fast and cheap.

Best ,

Mustafa Umut Sarac

 

[panastasia]

Think again that if your parts could be manufactured from plastics If you want to produce camera parts . I think you can draw your part with cad cam program and you can get small quantity rapid prototyping parts from plastic for example epoxy. Or you can order a rapid prototyping mold for to produce your parts with carbon graphite powder and epoxy blend.
Rapid prototyping is fast and cheap.

Fast and cheap? Usually "fast" (high tech.) means expensive , even if a cheap material is used for prototyping. Sometimes prototype designs are modified after being tested, then reproduced, like a feedback loop. I sounds as though you're relating to larger production quantities, like automotive engine parts for instance.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Automotive parts ... I read some of the F1 related technical journals and some plastic tooling companies advise to engineers to use plastic parts.
If you are not trying to manufacture hundreds of small metal pieces of hasselblad , but if you want to use some basic mechanical parts , you can go after rapid prototyping. You dont need to tell long stories to rp people because they are flexible people.But everything depends on your parts , their usage , stresses , etc etc.
I think fast dont mean expensive everytime. If you order a cnc work for plastic part , you can get cheaper quatation also. Because you will use less from the life span of 250 000 dollars machine , less stress , vibration and fast results.
There are some cnc people and rp people manufacture most artistic designs of jewel designers. I think they can help for something hard to explain.
If you want to manufacture from a mold , i advise to create a mold from the reference part with silicon rubber molding. Or some machines directly rp silicon rubber molds.
I hope this helps and you solve your problems.

Best ,

Mustafa Umut Sarac

 

[freygr]

I have more than 5 thousand dollars into mine, so far, where are these inexpensive machines? Are they made of fiberboard or steel?

Made in China. And allot of make you own parts and installing your self.

A $5000 CNC setup is cheap even for a hobbyist. But most hobbyist don't purchase large floor standing machines either.

There is some real good PC freeware out there to drive the CNC mills and laths.

 

[barryjyoung]

Made in China. And allot of make you own parts and installing your self.

A $5000 CNC setup is cheap even for a hobbyist. But most hobbyist don't purchase large floor standing machines either.

There is some real good PC freeware out there to drive the CNC mills and laths.

Actually, you can find complete CNC machines for a lot less than that, but they are underpowered, made from MDF and are very small. They use redirod 60 degree V threaded rod and something akin to drawer slides for linear motion.

The machine I am in the process of building is heavy gauge steel tubing welded together, It has the same type linear slides and ground ballscrews as industrial quality CNC machines. Also it has 62 inches of X axis in a machine that is extremely rigid. The aluminum framed machines I do not think would be rigid enough for what I am wanting to do. That and my very limited space for a machine meant I had to make my own.

I would very much have preferred to buy the machine so I could be making parts by now instead of machines. To my knowledge though, nobody makes a machine I could afford that is designed specifically for machining wooden boards. Almost all the available routers assume you want to cut sheet goods.

If I were not planning on manufacturing film holders, none of this would matter. The way the grooves for the film gates on film holders are arranged, the total tolerance available is very small, I am shooting for less than .0008 inch total tolerance on parallelism between septum and film gate. Should be a snap with the ball screws I was lucky enough to snag on ebay. Yes, I am aware this is wood and wood moves and all of that, but unless you control tolerances at the cutter, then additional distortion caused by wood movement is going to make things much worse.

You are right, I am using three pieces of software that are increidble for being shareware/freeware/demos. I draw with IntelliCad, Convert the drawings to code the machine can understand with SheetCam, and then run the machine with a demo version of Mach3. After I make a little money I plan on purchasing Mach3 and IntelliCad but would like to find an inexpensive 3D Cam package, perhaps BobCad.

The X axis rails and carriage are installed. The Z axis rails, carriage and ballscrew are installed. The Y axis rails, and table have been delivered and are ready to install. Once the X axis ballscrew is delivered and the Z axis timing belt components arrive, then everything will go much faster. That stuff arrives this week. I am hoping to have the machine complete and under computer control by the middle of September. After that happens, film holder components will start to be cranked out by the barrel full. Once there are plenty of film holder components in inventory and kits have been packaged, and completed holders have been assembled and packaged, then we will see inexpensive ULF and Panoramic film holders for the first time. The next step after that is to start making camera parts.

 

[epatsellis]

Barry, you can buy a cnc bridgeport with a bad control for $1300-2500, add Gecko stepper drives and Mach 3 and have heavy iron, for dirt cheap. A step up would be DC servomotors, with a counter interface that makes sure your position is under your specified following error, will fault out if it exceeds it and halt the machine. I brokered 2 Cincinnati CIMturn 10" cnc lathes, as well as all the hardware and software to convert them, neither one came to over $2500. I can be done inexpensively.

Never used intellicad, but I've used Les' program SheetCam and am a Mach3 dealer. For the less than $200 it costs, Mach 3 is the bargain in the CNC world. One thing that will save you a lot of grief Barry, if you haven't already poured through the exchanges several of the CAD/CAM list members and I have had, always buy your timing pulleys underbored, then chuck them in a 4 jaw chuck, indicate them until they are true to the teeth and bore to final size. Otherwise a few though off center (not uncommon, I've had as much as .010" off center) and you induce a cyclical error that you'll be chasing forever.

erie

 

[barryjyoung]

Hi:

I have never seen a Bridgeport with 5 feet of travel. Maybe table but not travel. Though a turret type milling machine would definitely be rigid, and very versatile, it would not do what I need it to do. The machine I am half way through building will do. I can move it by myself if I have to by removing the top of the machine which has been designed to be removable. I also do not have the room for a Bridgeport. Bridgeport's do not have interchangable heads or 25,000 RPM spindles. I also doubt very much that you can get a Bridgeport with a large table for that kind of money, all the ones I have seen at auction that are cheap like that have tables with 20-24 inch travel.

Thanks for the advice on the pulleys. I ordered them with undersize bores last Thursday with that very idea in mind. It is also possible to bush an oversize hole and bore that to the teeth.

I will purchase Mach3 next month and I agree, it is the best deal I have ever seen on the web for anything.

Thanks for your help.

Barry, you can buy a cnc bridgeport with a bad control for $1300-2500, add Gecko stepper drives and Mach 3 and have heavy iron, for dirt cheap. A step up would be DC servomotors, with a counter interface that makes sure your position is under your specified following error, will fault out if it exceeds it and halt the machine. I brokered 2 Cincinnati CIMturn 10" cnc lathes, as well as all the hardware and software to convert them, neither one came to over $2500. I can be done inexpensively.

Never used intellicad, but I've used Les' program SheetCam and am a Mach3 dealer. For the less than $200 it costs, Mach 3 is the bargain in the CNC world. One thing that will save you a lot of grief Barry, if you haven't already poured through the exchanges several of the CAD/CAM list members and I have had, always buy your timing pulleys underbored, then chuck them in a 4 jaw chuck, indicate them until they are true to the teeth and bore to final size. Otherwise a few though off center (not uncommon, I've had as much as .010" off center) and you induce a cyclical error that you'll be chasing forever.

erie

 

[barryjyoung]

The CNC milling machine I have designed and built is finally finished. One last little simple task is to attach a plywood subplate to the table top which is now flat within .001 inch all over. That will be done later today.

The first fixture will be made late today or early tomorrow and the process of making film holder components will begin. Very soon now affordable film holders and film holder kits will be available to the ULF community.

I am about two years behind schedule now.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Impressive, Barry!

 

[barryjyoung]

Impressive, Barry!

Thank you very much David.

 

[richard ide]

That looks like a really versatile piece of fine engineering. Congratulations!

I was thinking along similar lines but I think that for my work, I am going to make a bracket to hold a router on the column of a cheapo mill fastened to an R8 spindle.

 

[TracyStorer]

Barry,
the machine looks great. Can't wait to see what you make with it.
Best,
Tracy

 

[barryjyoung]

Thank you Richard:

Yes, many people get good results going that route too.

Thank you Tracy:

I can't wait either.

 

[Falkenberg]

I have had luck with using the school where they teach CNC in getting VERY cheap work done. They love to get real world jobs. I am sure there is a school like that in all parts of the world.

 

[pelerin]

The CNC milling machine I have designed and built is finally finished. One last little simple task is to attach a plywood subplate to the table top which is now flat within .001 inch all over. That will be done later today.

The first fixture will be made late today or early tomorrow and the process of making film holder components will begin. Very soon now affordable film holders and film holder kits will be available to the ULF community.

I am about two years behind schedule now.

Hi,
That looks like a Porter Cable 690 motor? If so I am impressed that it matches the tolerances you specify for your rig.
Celac

 

[barryjyoung]

Hi,
That looks like a Porter Cable 690 motor? If so I am impressed that it matches the tolerances you specify for your rig.
Celac

The roter is a Porter Cable 6902. The choice of spindle has nothing whatever to do with the precision of the guideways. The precision I referred to was in the alignment of the linear slides only. After your message I went out into the shop and measured the runout of the porter cable spindle and it was well within .0002 TIR. I guess I do not understand your question because that seems very good to me.

I use the router for its high speed. For more precision work I mount my Grizzly Minimill spindle to the Z axis. This works very well.

 

[pelerin]

The roter is a Porter Cable 6902. The choice of spindle has nothing whatever to do with the precision of the guideways. The precision I referred to was in the alignment of the linear slides only. After your message I went out into the shop and measured the runout of the porter cable spindle and it was well within .0002 TIR. I guess I do not understand your question because that seems very good to me.

I use the router for its high speed. For more precision work I mount my Grizzly Minimill spindle to the Z axis. This works very well.

Hi,
I'm sorry to be confusing. I just thought I recognized the router and was curious if it was indeed the tool I thought it was. I don't doubt that you have carefully checked that the tool's precision is within the tolerances you need for your application. I have a 690 and my personal experience is that it is a rugged little beastie. I was just impressed that something I have used for very rough work was also capable of doing the delicate stuff.
Celac

 

[barryjyoung]

Hi,
I'm sorry to be confusing. I just thought I recognized the router and was curious if it was indeed the tool I thought it was. I don't doubt that you have carefully checked that the tool's precision is within the tolerances you need for your application. I have a 690 and my personal experience is that it is a rugged little beastie. I was just impressed that something I have used for very rough work was also capable of doing the delicate stuff.
Celac

Hi Celac:

The Porter Cable tools are all really good.

 

[williambaker]

cnc work

Hello,

My friend al would be more than happy to take care of your request.

website:www.hanna-skye.com phone number: 281-808-3910
tell him William sent you...

Thanks,
Will

 

[paul ron]

This place does laser n CNC cutting of parts on large or small runs. Contact info...

Dead Link Removed

Give em a call?

 

[Ralph Javins]

Good morning, Celac;

Another area where small production runs (even one or two) are not unknown for precision machining is in the related field of astronomy and telescopes. There are some companies who advertise in SKY & TELESCOPE and ASTRONOMY magazines. You might inquire there also.