Someone help me with this screw up (Pic included!)

[paradoxbox]

Sorry for the poor quality, but I didn't want to put such a crappy photo anywhere near my scanner.

Alright, I had my first go at 4x5 film processing tonight (In fact first go at developing, period)

In short: There are bad stains on the negative and I don't know what caused them or how to avoid them in the future. How should I prevent this?

Second question, the bottom half of the frame is totally white (Or on the actual negative very black). There is some detail visible if I hold it up to a bright light. I think that I got the exposure on the actual photograph correct since the lighting was even across the very small subject. What caused the negative to go all black?

I'm guessing that the black area is the level where the chemicals came to rest in the developing tank when it was not being agitated. But I don't know.

Here's the info about how I developed, if you care:

I mixed all the chemicals correctly and there was no cross contamination so I'm positive that mixing mistakes were not the problem. I have a thermometer and measuring equipment etc..

I put the sheet of film inside my double reel plastic developing tank. I think I may have screwed this up, but I'm not sure it's the only problem. I think I may have put the emulsion side face in, I can't really remember. I think it's also possible that I may not have flattened the film completely against the tank's wall.

I developed everything at 24c since it's hot here in Tokyo and getting it cooler is not that easy, the water from the tap is about 24c.

I started with a pre wash that lasted around a minute and a half.

I then put in 500ml of developer. The 500ml number was arbitrary, I just used 500ml because that's how big my containers are for holding the chems. My developing tank says to use 650ml when developing 2 35mm reels but I figured a 4x5 sheet is flat so it didn't need as much. Was I wrong in doing that? Could I get away with using even less chemicals? Nothing I'm developing right now is very important, I'm just trying not to screw up the negative.

I agitated the developer every minute or so for about 15 seconds, for total development of 4mins 30sec which was the recommended time on the back of the developer package for the temperature I developed at. At times I shook the tank pretty hard, and I wonder if this is what caused some of the stains and small bubbles you can see on the negative?

I poured out the developer, and started a stop bath of 500ml of water for around a minute and a half. I know people say to use acetic acid / vinegar but I've seen enough people do it on youtube with water to know it works. I also don't happen to have any acetic acid or vinegar in my home at the moment..!

I then poured in 500ml of fixer, again agitating for about 4mins 30sec, the fixer bottle had no instructions for sheet film so I just averaged out what it wrote for the 35mm and 120mm films. Again shook pretty hard and am wondering if that's what caused the bubbling and staining.

Lastly I poured out the fixer and filled the container with water and washed it a few times. When I checked the negative I knew right away it was screwed up so I didn't bother with photo flo or anything else.

 

[railwayman3]

Others more expert in 4x5 than I will probably be able to comment in more detail, but, assuming that you mean that the original neg is black on the lefthand side as we view it above, it looks like a clear case of bad light fogging. Have you checked your camera/film holder?

 

[bdial]

The area that is completely black is most likely fogged or light-struck. Most plastic tanks need a reel to be light tight, If you didn't have the reel or the tube that goes in the center that might be the cause.
For chemical volume, you need enough to completely immerse the film if you aren't using a rotary process. You can check by putting a sheet of film in with the lid off, then measuring how much is required to completely cover the sheet.
The fixer time is fine for sheet film too. The proper fixing time for almost any film is twice the time it takes to clear the undeveloped portions of the emulsion.

 

[David Grenet]

You needed more chemistry in the tank for starters - without the reels in there taking up space I think you need more like 800ml.

Also, did you have the centre column in? It is a necessary part of the light trap.

 

[Jeff Searust]

The area that is completely black is most likely fogged or light-struck. Most plastic tanks need a reel to be light tight, If you didn't have the reel or the tube that goes in the center that might be the cause.

--100%--

I have a roll of film that I had sitting out that I needed to get in the dark as I had to turn the lights on in the darkroom for a moment, so I tossed it in a tank-- looks a lot like that.

Why not try this in small trays in the dark?

 

[paradoxbox]

the film holders seem to be fine, i'm not sure how it could let in THAT much light. maybe along the edge but half the photo i'm not so sure.

I was pretty careful when I opened the film package, the room was totally dark and a towel under the door. this is fuji acros 100 and even if it was slightly fogged while i was loading it into the holder, there's no way it would fog that badly (i don't load film slowly enough for it to happen, haha). so i don't think it's a light leak or fogging from loading or the holder.

i did pull out the little agitator spindle from the tank while doing this sheet but i'm pretty sure it's still light tight without it. the tank as far as i know is a clone of a patterson plastic tank.

i should have mentioned, the area with detail in the negative is covered with a brown stain layer. there is a fairly clear line where the stain stops, right where the negative goes all black.

ahhhh... i remembered that there is another spindle that was supposed to go in there. damn, what a newbie mistake. i left the reels on the spindle. i guess that's what that was.

is there any other reason for the brown staining and bubbles though?

 

[Sirius Glass]

4x5 is larger than 120 so my first recommendation is to us the fixer for more than five minutes rather than 4 minutes and 30 seconds.

Second, always write down what you are doing, especially when you are learning, as you did this time. Look at each mistake you think you made and figure out how to correct that the next time.

Example: I have develop many rolls of 35 mm and 120 rolls of film in steel tanks with steel reels. Every once in a while I get one roll that will not go on the reel not matter what I do. I put the film in the tank without the reel. I cover the tank. Take my hands out of the changing bag and walk away for a while. When I come back, usually it works better.
​

What you are learning takes times and you should not be hard on yourself for making a mistake.

Steve

 

[mts]

Try processing in trays, in the dark. Process an unexposed sheet. Perhaps your film is fogged?

 

[FredW]

If its similar to the Patterson tank, when doing stand development for a double reel tank, I found I needed 650 ml of developer to fully cover the film.

The easiest way is to take your ruined sheet of film, load it in your tank as if you were going to develop the film, and fill the tank with water until the film is covered completely. Then measure the volume of water, this is your minimum amount.

Did you have the center reel holder in the tank, its necessary for the light trap to work?

 

[paradoxbox]

yeah it's definitely fogged from processing it without the main spindle in the center of the tank.

i'm not sure that the photo would have come out decently though even if i had put it in, because there's brown stain stuff all over the properly exposed/developed area of the negative and i don't know what it is or how to avoid it next time.

Try processing in trays, in the dark. Process an unexposed sheet. Perhaps your film is fogged?

 

[mwdake]

I don't know what tank you are using but it sounds like you are using a roll film tank. If so and you are not setting the tank on its side and rolling it somehow I doubt very much that 500ml will be enough chemistry.

I occasionaly use one of my 2 reel Paterson tanks to do 2 sheets of 3x4 using the taco method and it takes 600ml, so 4x5 would need even more; this for keeping the tank upright and using intermittinet agitation.

I suggest you use the damaged film to measure how much chemistry you need for your next try. Find a rubber band to fit around then negative so it is slightly bowed and will fit in the tank emulsion side towards the center of the tank. Then fill with water to see how much is needed to cover the film. Pour out the water into a measure and record he amount; use that amount of chemistry in future.

You can use roll film tanks with smaller amount of chemistry but you will need to lay the tank on its side and roll it for agitaion or put it on a roller agitator. And, don;t forget you still need the center column even if not using the reels.


Good luck.

 

[gainer]

If you have room, you can use an 8x10 paper safe for a sheet film developing tank. The lid is, of course, light tight. Put the film in emulsion up. You can agitate a single sheet by rocking. Such a paper safe can be had cheaply at Freestyle.

 

[Nige]

I do 4x5 'tacos' in a Paterson 2 reel System 4 tank and I use 900ml of solution to ensure it's covered. The missing centre pole probably explains the bad fogging, the 'vigorous' agitation with not enough developer would explain the bubbles.