Some questions about alpa cameras

[Jet]

The Alpa 9D might be the quirkiest camera I own, and as soon as I find a decently priced adapter, I'm going to shoot with it. I also own a Konica T3 with a 50mm 1.4, which I'd say is a well refined 70's SLR. If I had both in the 70's, I could see doing much more shooting with the Konica.

 

[Dan Fromm]

I'm not sure if the watch analogy is quite correct. High-end watches such as Patek Philippe, Lange & Söhne, Ulysse Nardin, Jaeger LeCoultre, etc., although hand-assembled and featuring their own unique calibers, probably don't manufacture their own gears, springs, and screws, etc.




The 3.5" Questar is a thing of beauty. I first saw the Hercules globular cluster through a Questar.

All IWC calibres.

So is the 700/8 Questar.

 

[JW PHOTO]

There are two ways of looking at the weight of a camera. It can be a measure of the quality of the workmanship. Additionally extra weight can also lessen camera shake.

Gerald is right-on about the extra weight. I have some problems with my central nervous system and developed slight tremor of the hands as well as other parts of the body. I find some of my best pictures come from a cheaply bought Nikon F4S. This thing is the heaviest 35mm I have ever owned and seems to help reduce, but not eliminate my tremor problems. My Leicaflex SL is a fine camera, but can't hold a candle to the F4S. Each to his own, but I like heavy. John W

 

[JW PHOTO]

I've owned three Alpa cameras and never got along with any of them. The guy who designed the film advance must have been drunk at the time. The Makro-Kilar 90mm f2.8 is a stunning lens, but the rest are just what I would rate as excellent. Of course I haven't tried them all and now they are far over priced for what they are. Leica R lenses are a far better deal to me. I think the best body to me is the 9d with the 10d as a close tie, but I wasn't thrilled with either myself and kept the Leica SL and six R lenses instead.

 

[Jet]

JW, that surprises me. I've got a 9D, and thought that the 10d would be a cut above, with a better metering system and an improved viewfinder. What did you like better about the 9D?

 

[ph]

This debate has at least three strands.

A: What robust and well built camera to buy for using analogue film.

B: Whether Alpa (Rolls Royce\Bugatti\HispanoSuiza) is worth its exorbitant price,

C: Whether Alpa-engraved lenses (Kern, Kinoptik, Angenieux, Spectros,Kilfitt, Schneider, Oude Delft....) are any good (or worth as much as their price tag).


For A, most top-of- the- line bodies will do, but those with the longest mount to film distance (like the Leicaflex\Leica R) will severely restrict your choice. At the other end of the mount distance range, Alpa will enable any SLR lens to be mounted. With their own converters, at a price. With others, less cost.

For B, let your wallet decide and prepare to keep your investment in the garage\on the shelf\in your banks¨ vaults until your ownership lust decreases (or penury sets in).

As far as C is concerned, the Kern Switars and some of the Kinoptics were labelled as apochomatic. In my experience, they perform well enough for my needs (in the distant past, 6feet away for projecting Kodechromes on a 6x6 foot matte screen.). But then again I am still satified with some of the Alpa optics on digital and have not yet discarded them in favour of my aspherical and apochromatic Leica R lenses, so i might be too lenient on bokeh and longitudinal colour misbehaviour.

I may not be too finicky, so Yesterday I was entirely satisfied with my 60mm R-macro Elmarit at f:5,6.

So in conclusion

A: Indecision goes nowhere. Get a m43 mount cheap machine which can be replaced when it conks out and can use a great many excellent lenses (some even made by Kilfitt, Kinoptik, Angenieus etc.)

B: If you want to join the RollsRoyce collectors and want a collectable camera body for investment, my guess is that Leica sm\M , Alpa and some others has already gone up to the stratosphere, while Leicaflex, Leica R, Nikon F2, Canon F1 will come -in relation to their production volumes-

C: if your optical concerns center on say A3 format or merely on giving away pictures in smaller sizes, a number of ancient Alpa lenses and many others will do.


p.

 

[rthollenbeck]

I respectfully submit the Alpa is not really a sensible choice. Sure the Alpa may be one of the best built 35mm ever. Look at the ridiculously long life span of other not nearly so esoteric main stream cameras. Nikon, Canon, a crazy assortment of rangefinders, and plenty of others made pro level cameras disgned to last for ages under heavy use. I think most if not all of the respected makers had glass that the only real limitation was the end user. If the only way you can get what you need out of a 35mm is to consider Alpa, I sujessugest maybe a format change is in order.
If you want an Alpa go ahead and get one, enjoy it, but don't fool yourself there are other plenty capable machines out there.

 

[4season]

If you want to join the RollsRoyce collectors and want a collectable camera body for investment, my guess is that Leica sm\M , Alpa and some others has already gone up to the stratosphere, while Leicaflex, Leica R, Nikon F2, Canon F1 will come -in relation to their production volumes-

The OP didn't say otherwise, so I just assumed he wanted to sample something which felt like a classic high-end product. I totally understand the desire to "Buy the best right from the start and avoid wasting money on endless upgrades". Even if it always was more of an ideal than a workable strategy

Oh gosh no I wouldn't advise anyone to get into this as an investment: If anything it looks to me that prices on classic gear has declined in the past 5-10-15 years, sometimes sharply. A few items continue to set record-breaking prices at auction, but the peak time to sell a Leica 3G, Hansa Canon or Nikon SP was probably years ago. OTOH, if a person just wants to get into it for the sheer fun of it, this would be a great time to do it.

 

[phil0]

I'm not sure if the watch analogy is quite correct. High-end watches such as Patek Philippe, Lange & Söhne, Ulysse Nardin, Jaeger LeCoultre, etc., although hand-assembled and featuring their own unique calibers, probably don't manufacture their own gears, springs, and screws, etc.

Alpa was made by Pignons, a Swiss firm that made-wait for it-watch parts.

 

[phil0]

I respectfully submit the Alpa is not really a sensible choice. Sure the Alpa may be one of the best built 35mm ever. Look at the ridiculously long life span of other not nearly so esoteric main stream cameras. Nikon, Canon, a crazy assortment of rangefinders, and plenty of others made pro level cameras disgned to last for ages under heavy use. I think most if not all of the respected makers had glass that the only real limitation was the end user. If the only way you can get what you need out of a 35mm is to consider Alpa, I sujessugest maybe a format change is in order.
If you want an Alpa go ahead and get one, enjoy it, but don't fool yourself there are other plenty capable machines out there.

Get the Alpa if you want a quirky weird camera. It does things differently than any other camera, for a reason, but weird. Use one for a while and it starts to make sense but weird none the less.
I pull mine out when I go to classic car shows. Seems right.

 

[JW PHOTO]

JW, that surprises me. I've got a 9D, and thought that the 10d would be a cut above, with a better metering system and an improved viewfinder. What did you like better about the 9D?

Not much, but I just like the feel of it better and as far as the viewfinder I could easily use either one. Yes, the metering was better on the 10d, but the 9d wasn't to bad either. 10d or 9d would be good and if I had the 9d I certainly wouldn't pay very much more for the up grade to the 10d. Of course I much preferred the Leica M2 to the Leica M3 also. Maybe I'm just different? John W:crazy:

 

[flavio81]

think most if not all of the respected makers had glass that the only real limitation was the end user. If the only way you can get what you need out of a 35mm is to consider Alpa, I suggest maybe a format change is in order.

Great advice here.
The average medium format camera will give image quality superior to the most outstanding 35mm camera.

Even my old Ricohflex with 3-element front-cell-focusing lenses was able to give pictures that would you say "wow... phenomenally sharp!!" if you were only accustomed to 35mm.

 

[Paul Howell]

Great advice here.
The average medium format camera will give image quality superior to the most outstanding 35mm camera.

Even my old Ricohflex with 3-element front-cell-focusing lenses was able to give pictures that would you say "wow... phenomenally sharp!!" if you were only accustomed to 35mm.

I don't think that SindreS who started the post was as interested in the lens as he was about the body, he wanted a reliable body that has the Leica feel to it. The Alpa I used for just a couple of weeks had the Leica like feel, others who own Alpas don't seem to share my experience. The odd finger pull film winder takes some getting use to, in the short time I used the camera I had not. The meter was accurate, matched my handheld meters and the matrix meter in my Sigma SA 9. I thought the lens were quite good, well more than good Swiss Kern is the best 50mm I have ever used. But your right, if shooting landscapes, portraits, or still life's I would use MF or LF. I shoot travel, wildlife and sports with 35mm and an Alpa would be slow, does not have a electric motor drive, slow flash syn, and top end shutter is 1/1000, and no modern lens like a 70 to 200 2.8 or a 28 to 105 travel zoom. So depending what you shoot may or may be a good choice.

 

[SindreS]

I'm back fellas and boy i'd never thought this discussion would be this big. I agree that one can see this discussion in the three ways as stated above (A,B and C).

I have several criteras as listed before. The most important are.
Silent shutter.
Well built and fixable!
Good feel of the camera.
Small size.
Adapters to use newer or cheaper lenses.
built in lightmeter (preferrably diodes if possible)
1/1000th or faster.
quirky is not a problem if I only need to adapt my selves to the camera, but quircky in the way that the rangefinder and viewfing is separated is a deal breaker.

I do not need these:
Interchangeable viewfinders/focus glasses etc.
Autofocus

A motor drive would be fun but I don't think I would use it alot.

I want to stay in 35mm format because of its size and because I don't print larger than max a3 (and often not the entire a3 paper!)

Bonus questions:

Why are the alpas not sensible cameras? too expensive? Feature lacking? If so grab and contax rx (which i currently have without a lens and im going to try it) or a nikon f6 for instance.

 

[Paul Howell]

I'm back fellas and boy i'd never thought this discussion would be this big. I agree that one can see this discussion in the three ways as stated above (A,B and C).

I have several criteras as listed before. The most important are.
Silent shutter.
Well built and fixable!
Good feel of the camera.
Small size.
Adapters to use newer or cheaper lenses.
built in lightmeter (preferrably diodes if possible)
1/1000th or faster.
quirky is not a problem if I only need to adapt my selves to the camera, but quircky in the way that the rangefinder and viewfing is separated is a deal breaker.

I do not need these:
Interchangeable viewfinders/focus glasses etc.
Autofocus

A motor drive would be fun but I don't think I would use it alot.

I want to stay in 35mm format because of its size and because I don't print larger than max a3 (and often not the entire a3 paper!)

Bonus questions:

Why are the alpas not sensible cameras? too expensive? Feature lacking? If so grab and contax rx (which i currently have without a lens and im going to try it) or a nikon f6 for instance.

I would not want to use the word sensible, any camera that is 40 or so years has drawbacks, maintenance and repair, obtaining new lens, limited number of features. I think all older cameras to some degree have similar consideration. I attempted to collect Miranda's, gave up as I am a shooter and not a collector, but very similar issues as Alpa, although Miranda made many more cameras than Alpa compared to Nikon, Canon, Pentax or Minolta just not many, finding accessories a challenge, limited number of 3rd party lens, in the day the EE had spot and weighted average, but no matrix, no auto focus, and it is a dead end, no AF or digital bodies for upgrade.

The Nikon F6, pro level build, maybe not the level of the F5 but very sturdy, very good AF, a really good meter, still being sold, lots of Nikon repair facilities. Nikon lens and some very good 3rd party lens, nice range of accessories, such as a batter grip, interchangeable focusing screens. Even if Nikon discontinues the F6 they will supports for years to come. Other option Canon EOS 1V. Some say the F4 was the best manual focus camera Nikon ever made.

 

[Paul Howell]

I'm back fellas and boy i'd never thought this discussion would be this big. I agree that one can see this discussion in the three ways as stated above (A,B and C).

I have several criteras as listed before. The most important are.
Silent shutter.
Well built and fixable!
Good feel of the camera.
Small size.
Adapters to use newer or cheaper lenses.
built in lightmeter (preferrably diodes if possible)
1/1000th or faster.
quirky is not a problem if I only need to adapt my selves to the camera, but quircky in the way that the rangefinder and viewfing is separated is a deal breaker.

I do not need these:
Interchangeable viewfinders/focus glasses etc.
Autofocus

A motor drive would be fun but I don't think I would use it alot.

I want to stay in 35mm format because of its size and because I don't print larger than max a3 (and often not the entire a3 paper!)

Bonus questions:

Why are the alpas not sensible cameras? too expensive? Feature lacking? If so grab and contax rx (which i currently have without a lens and im going to try it) or a nikon f6 for instance.

I would not want to use the word sensible, any camera that is 40 or so years has drawbacks, maintenance and repair, obtaining new lens, limited number of features. I think all older cameras to some degree have similar consideration. I attempted to collect Miranda's, gave up as I am a shooter and not a collector, but very similar issues as Alpa, although Miranda made many more cameras than Alpa compared to Nikon, Canon, Pentax or Minolta just not many, finding accessories a challenge, limited number of 3rd party lens, in the day the EE had spot and weighted average, but no matrix, no auto focus, and it is a dead end, no AF or digital bodies for upgrade.

The Nikon F6, pro level build, maybe not the level of the F5 but very sturdy, very good AF, a really good meter, still being sold, lots of Nikon repair facilities. Nikon lens and some very good 3rd party lens, nice range of accessories, such as a batter grip, interchangeable focusing screens. Even if Nikon discontinues the F6 they will supports for years to come. Other option Canon EOS 1V. Some say the F4 was the best manual focus camera Nikon ever made.

I just bought a couple of Minolta 9000s, a set of lens and got a few AF bodies that were connected to lens. Less than $300 for all of it, I hope I have enough gear to last for next 5 to so years.

 

[cuthbert]

I'm back fellas and boy i'd never thought this discussion would be this big. I agree that one can see this discussion in the three ways as stated above (A,B and C).

I have several criteras as listed before. The most important are.
Silent shutter.
Well built and fixable!
Good feel of the camera.
Small size.
Adapters to use newer or cheaper lenses.
built in lightmeter (preferrably diodes if possible)
1/1000th or faster.
quirky is not a problem if I only need to adapt my selves to the camera, but quircky in the way that the rangefinder and viewfing is separated is a deal breaker.

I do not need these:
Interchangeable viewfinders/focus glasses etc.
Autofocus

A motor drive would be fun but I don't think I would use it alot.

I want to stay in 35mm format because of its size and because I don't print larger than max a3 (and often not the entire a3 paper!)

Bonus questions:

Why are the alpas not sensible cameras? too expensive? Feature lacking? If so grab and contax rx (which i currently have without a lens and im going to try it) or a nikon f6 for instance.

Nikon FM or FM2
Fujica ST801
Pentax MX

For the Alpas, still if you want one get one.

 

[4season]

Absolute tops in adaptability and quiet are digital mirrorless cameras: Electronic shutter + short flange to focal plane distance = joy! No mechanical shutter is as quiet as an electronic shutter.

But if you're sticking with film, try a Canon EOS body which has one of the shorter flange to focal plane distances in the SLR world. And EOS is popular and common enough that adapters actually are available at competitive prices. Towards the later days of film, camera makers figured out how to make motorized SLRs surprisingly smooth & quiet. I don't have Canon experience, but IIRC, my Nikon F4E actually seemed quieter than my F3 with or without motor.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

I have several criteras as listed before. The most important are.
Silent shutter.
Well built and fixable!
Good feel of the camera.
Small size.
Adapters to use newer or cheaper lenses.
built in lightmeter (preferrably diodes if possible)
1/1000th or faster.
quirky is not a problem if I only need to adapt my selves to the camera, but quircky in the way that the rangefinder and viewfing is separated is a deal breaker.

I do not need these:
Interchangeable viewfinders/focus glasses etc.
Autofocus

A motor drive would be fun but I don't think I would use it alot.

I want to stay in 35mm format because of its size and because I don't print larger than max a3 (and often not the entire a3 paper!)

Bonus questions:

Why are the alpas not sensible cameras? too expensive? Feature lacking? If so grab and contax rx (which i currently have without a lens and im going to try it) or a nikon f6 for instance.

Some of your requirements are in conflict with themselves. No SLR with a mirror will be very quiet. Even a Leica M is audible. The quietest cameras are leaf-shutter rangefinders. As for motor drive - not quiet at all.

You want a "lifetime camera" - Alpas may be precision built, but they weren't designed for decades of use by professional photographers (press, commercial, etc.).

What type of photography will you be doing? That dictates the camera to some extent. As others have suggested, the FM, FM2, OM, or Pentax K-mount might work very well.

 

[MattKing]

I would be surprised if Alpas are fixable. Where would one obtain parts? How many repair technicians are there with knowledge and experience with them?

It would be nice to have a working copy, but I wouldn't want to have to depend on one.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Some of your requirements are in conflict with themselves. No SLR with a mirror will be very quiet. Even a Leica M is audible. The quietest cameras are leaf-shutter rangefinders. As for motor drive - not quiet at all.

Topcons use a prism instead of a moving mirror so there is not mirror sound.

 

[Jet]

I love shooting with an old film cameras from time to time. I purchased the Alpa 9D to get an idea of what it is like to shoot with this camera, that seems different from most 35mm SLRs. I do most of my serious shooting with a Nikon D2X. SindreS, what drew you to the Alpa in the first place? I read about it in Ivor Matanle's book "Collecting and Using Classic SLRs", and from that lusted after one. How often do you intend to shoot it? How much do you want to spend?

Ken Rockwell said "The (Nikon) F2AS is the last, best, most advanced and most durable mechanical camera ever made by Nikon. It might be the best ever made by anyone". If I was just to have one reliable completely awesome film camera, to this would probably be it. I have a very beat up F2SB that keeps on ticking. Looks like it fell off a cliff......

Radu at 3R camera seems to be the fellow people go to when they need to have their Alpa repaired.

Mattking, it seems like we live in the same part of the world.

 

[SindreS]

Some of your requirements are in conflict with themselves. No SLR with a mirror will be very quiet. Even a Leica M is audible. The quietest cameras are leaf-shutter rangefinders. As for motor drive - not quiet at all.

You want a "lifetime camera" - Alpas may be precision built, but they weren't designed for decades of use by professional photographers (press, commercial, etc.).

What type of photography will you be doing? That dictates the camera to some extent. As others have suggested, the FM, FM2, OM, or Pentax K-mount might work very well.

I don't mean completly inaudbile and I know the disadvantages of slr. But what are some of the quietest slr bodies?

F6 Has tons of electronics and AF if im not mistaken? How is it's size? Are there any camera comparison pages?

I want to stick with film, I have a digital m4/3 body.

 

[JW PHOTO]

I love shooting with an old film cameras from time to time. I purchased the Alpa 9D to get an idea of what it is like to shoot with this camera, that seems different from most 35mm SLRs. I do most of my serious shooting with a Nikon D2X. SindreS, what drew you to the Alpa in the first place? I read about it in Ivor Matanle's book "Collecting and Using Classic SLRs", and from that lusted after one. How often do you intend to shoot it? How much do you want to spend?

Ken Rockwell said "The (Nikon) F2AS is the last, best, most advanced and most durable mechanical camera ever made by Nikon. It might be the best ever made by anyone". If I was just to have one reliable completely awesome film camera, to this would probably be it. I have a very beat up F2SB that keeps on ticking. Looks like it fell off a cliff......

Radu at 3R camera seems to be the fellow people go to when they need to have their Alpa repaired.

Mattking, it seems like we live in the same part of the world.

Many people do not like Ken Rockwell or take what he says with a grain of salt, but I personally believe he is right on the Nikon F2AS. I have owned many of the best cameras like M-series Leicas, Leicaflex, Canon F1's T90's, Contax, Alpa, Zeiss Contaflex/Contarex, 'blads, Rolleis etc.(35mm and medium format) so I have some experience with those and many others also. The F2AS was my all-time best and favorite camera. It never, ever let me down and the AS(DP12) metered prism was absolute perfection. Nikon was right when they said you could meter in candle light with the F2AS. Unbelievable camera and metered prism. I have sold many of my cameras off to play with digital(big mistake) and the Nikon F2AS was the only camera I sold that made my eyes water when it left home. I agree with Ken, "It was the best camera ever made"! But if you want to try Alpa then try Alpa. Now is the time since the price of cameras(some anyway) has dropped to make them available for nearly everyone. It is a very fun time to play with film. John W

 

[cuthbert]

Yes Ken is right:

Ken Rockwell said "The (Nikon) F2AS is the last, best, most advanced and most durable mechanical camera ever made by Nikon. It might be the best ever made by anyone". If I was just to have one reliable completely awesome film camera, to this would probably be it. I have a very beat up F2SB that keeps on ticking. Looks like it fell off a cliff......

While I love mine very much I must admit the lightmeter of the LX is more advanced, if the AS can meter a handle the LX can meter the night reaching -6 EV. Plus the viewfinder is not as dim, it's smaller and offers AE priority.

Anyway the OP wants a small camera and neither the F-1 or the F2 are.