[Solved] Help with what I did wrong with Rollei Blackbird development

[Garb]

I'm pretty new to developing and would appreciate some help identifying what went wrong with my Rollei Blackbird. The base looks fogged consistently on the entire roll and the image is thin. Compared to an Agfa Copex Rapid which I developed using mostly the same chemicals on the same day, which came out acceptable.

I am comparing my roll with that of YouTuber Shaka1277 in video "My First Roll of Rollei Blackbird, in the Hasselblad XPan II" you can see his film strip at 1:57. I thought maybe my film was underdeveloped (time or temperature) based on "Common Processing Problems" by Ilford but then wouldn't have expected the base to be so dense. Shaka1277's base looks lighter (although admittedly it could be the lighting).

Film condition: both were purchased new and unexpired from a photo shop, I am the original owner, and I don't recall the expiration date, but I believe neither would have been more than 1 year expired at the time of development. They were shot about 5~6 months before being developed. Stored in a closed closet, in the film canister pretty much the entire time, both before and after shooting.

Development of Agfa Copex Rapid (shot at ISO 50):

1x35mm in a Paterson tank

1. 1+100 Adinol diluted in 300 mL tap water, semi-stand for 18 minutes (agitate at 4.5, 9, and 13.5 minutes)
2. Ilford Silverchrome stop bath (1+39): 5 minutes, agitate 30 seconds at first and then every 30 seconds.
3. Adofix (1+7): 8 minutes, agitate 30 seconds at first and then every 30 seconds.
4. Wash by filling tank with tap water about 10 times and dumping
5. Adox Fixer (1+200) (Edit: AdoFlo, not AdoFix)

Development of Rollei Blackbird (shot at ISO 64, shot on the same day as the Agfa Copex Rapid):

1x35mm in a Paterson tank

1. 1+50 Adinol: 11 minutes, agitate 30 seconds at first and then every 30 seconds.
2. Stop bath: Same as above, chemicals were re-used
3. Adofix: Same as above, but new chemicals mixed as it had turned purple
4. Wash: same as above
5. Fixer: same as above, chemicals were re-used (Edit: AdoFlo, not AdoFix)

I do cut a lot of corners when I develop, so maybe it's one of these things:

• I do not measure the temperature of water each time. I measured the cold water coming out of my tap once, it's 21C degrees, which I assume is close enough to the standard 20C, generally hasn't been a problem for other films
• Stop bath is about a year old, expired, stored in a capped bottle undiluted but air was not removed. I vaguely recall reading on the net that stop bath doesn't really go bad.
• Fixer: Possibly expired by up to one year, stored in a capped bottle undiluted but air was not removed.

 

[Dustin McAmera]

For me, unexpected results like this usually mean I didn't do what I think I did; like I thought '3 ml' but only actually measured out 1 ml.

Some films (I only know of Pan F) don't retain the image well if you wait a long time before developing.

I assume stage 5 each time is actually wetting agent, not a second fix?

Also not relevant to your problem, but stop bath for five minutes? I confess I never use it, but I thought stop bath was a 'pour it in, invert a couple of times and pour it out' process - a minute at most.

 

[Huub]

Looks like serious underdevelopment to me.

This could have a few causes, like stale Adinol - it doesnt have the famous keeping properties the classic Rodinal had. Did you develop both films shortly after eachother, or were there weeks or months in between? It could also be caused because you did cut a few corners to much, like not measuring the amount of developer precisely enough or your water being a few degrees colder then you actually thought is was - normally you compensate with about 10% for every degree the water differs from 20 c and some developers stop working when temperature gets below 17 c et cetera..

What i also imagine to see is a milky streak running over the middle of your film - the tell tale signs of spend fixer. Fix has good keeping properties, but limited capacity and quite a few of us keep track of how much film was fixed with a certain batch, as bad fixing has a desastrous effect on the archival properties of the film.

 

[koraks]

Looks like serious underdevelopment to me.

For sure!

I measured the cold water coming out of my tap once, it's 21C degrees, which I assume is close enough to the standard 20C, generally hasn't been a problem for other films

Should be fine, unless for some reason you drew much cooler water this time. I don't know the first thing about the drinking water system in Tokyo, but around this time of year, the water from our tap runs considerably cooler than 20C - more like 10-12C. But if I open the tap, the first few liters are much warmer since they've spent some time sitting around in the pipes inside our home, so it has had time to warm up. I therefore never rely on tap water temperature for developers.

I vaguely recall reading on the net that stop bath doesn't really go bad.

Indeed, it doesn't. And it'll still stop film development within about 10 seconds, so the 5 minute stop bath is really not necessary as @Dustin McAmera mentions.

Fixer: Possibly expired by up to one year, stored in a capped bottle undiluted but air was not removed.

The fixer is certainly not your problem, but I also noticed the streak that @Huub mentions. However, I assume it's an artefact in the digital photo of the still wet film.
Fixer is still good unless there is a precipitate in the bottle.

I assume stage 5 each time is actually wetting agent, not a second fix?

Yeah, I'd expect that step to be AdoStab or AdoFlo, not AdoFix.

This could have a few causes, like stale Adinol

However, he did use the same Adinol for the Copex that came out OK, it seems.

I put my money on a measurement or timing issue; i.e. too low development temperature, timer set incorrectly or stopped early during development or a developer mixing error.

 

[Garb]

You're right, for step 5, I meant to write AdoFlo, not AdoFix.

I didn't know that Adinol doesn't have the same long term shelf life as Rodinol. That being said, the two films were developed about 30 to 45 minutes apart and the Adinol was bought new only a few months ago so I would expect it to be fresh.

As for using stop bath for 5 minutes, I suspected it was too long but I thought that was what was written on the bottle. Looking at again, it said 5 seconds, not 5 minutes...it was in Japanese which is not my native language. Thanks for pointing this out.

The streak down the middle, I think that's actually a shadow on the wall behind the film. I looked at the film today and it was not present.

So, I'm pretty sure I think I know what went wrong. A combination of "Looks like serious underdevelopment to me" and "but around this time of year, the water from our tap runs considerably cooler than 20C - more like 10-12C" led me to the conclusion. I only measured the tap water for the Agfa Copex Rapid, not the Blackbird, assuming them to be the same. I just tried the cold tap water now and it came out 15C to 16C. But, if I were using the hot water directly before getting the water for the Agfa Copex Rapid, it would have come out hotter than 16C. Thanks for all the pointers.

 

[koraks]

I just tried the cold tap water now and it came out 15C to 16C.

Yeah, that's a pretty significant difference. If you look at temperature compensation curves, you'll notice that a 5C difference would require a pretty dramatic adjustment in development time.

Your 11 minute time at 20C would have had to be extended to around 22 minutes at 15C to obtain the same result. The underdeveloped film strip seems to be in agreement with this.

In case you happen to try again with a controlled temperature approach, please let us know if this actually solves the problem!

 

[Garb]

I don't think I have any Blackbird waiting to develop, but I just did two rolls of Agfa Pan 25, this time actually controlling the developer, stop bath, and fixer temperature instead of just assuming the temperature is correct. Also only put it in the stop bath for less than minute instead of five minutes. They came out much better.

 

[koraks]

Great, that's promising; thanks for posting back!

 

[Garb]

They're drying as we speak.

 

[koraks]

No lack of density there! Looks good; I hope the problem stays away now.

 

[gkardmw]

Yeah, that's a pretty significant difference. If you look at temperature compensation curves, you'll notice that a 5C difference would require a pretty dramatic adjustment in development time.

Your 11 minute time at 20C would have had to be extended to around 22 minutes at 15C to obtain the same result. The underdeveloped film strip seems to be in agreement with this.

In case you happen to try again with a controlled temperature approach, please let us know if this actually solves the problem!

My eyes might be playing tricks on me but doesn't it look more like 18.5 minutes at 15C?

 

[koraks]

My eyes might be playing tricks on me but doesn't it look more like 18.5 minutes at 15C?

Yeah, you're totally right! I read all the way down to 13C by mistake.