So what is it YOU really want to know about Portraiture & Childhood Photography?

Nicole · Dec 14, 2006

Hi everyone

I've been slowed down a little for a while but the mind just doesn't stop ticking over. So I have a question for all of you who are interested in learning more about photography, specifically portraiture and childhood photography - which I'd appreciate you thinking about thoroughly before responding.

What is it YOU really want to know/learn about Portraiture and Childhood Photography?

You can think outside the box stuff, technical, physical, emotional, lighting, environment(al), challenges, controversial (if allowed by the moderating team), and much more...

This thread is to get a discussion going on portraiture and child portraiture. I'd be interested to hear from you on this thread or feel free to PM me.

Kind regards, Nicole

Mark Pope · Dec 14, 2006

Hi Nicole,

I'm not so interested in photographing children, but I am in doing some more portraiture. I find the thing I have trouble with is posing the subject.

Cheers

photogolf · Dec 14, 2006

I just setup a home studio and really interested in doing portraiture. Ccan't find kids that will sit still.

arigram · Dec 14, 2006

My questions:
Do you have to be a parent yourself and/or a woman to have the sensitivity and connection to be succesful with such difficult posers? I ask because most of the photographers who specialise on children are either women or atleast parents.
Even though I have no chidlren myself or any desire to have a family at the moment, I do like to approach them as an equal, that is, remembering that I have been a child myself and that I feel I haven't grown that much since then.

noseoil · Dec 14, 2006

Not too interested in children's portraiture, but am in adults. I did a shoot this weekend for a friend, and found it very challenging. Lighting, poses, props, clothing, etc. (basically, all aspects involved) are of interest. Good to see you posting again! Best, tim

Robert Hall · Dec 14, 2006

I have a couple observations:

1. If they are under 4 years old, don't use an 8x10.

2. I have trouble with kids between 5 and say 8 or 9 because they get that plastic smile that looks more like a grimace.

I try to work around it and either have them not smile or try to get them to laugh a little.

Anyone?

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 14, 2006

Great to see you back on the forum, Nicole!

While Melchior is 12 days old today and sleeps quietly for much of the day, I figure this is the time to get some 11x14" shots in before he becomes too active. If he's curled up in his usual way, this might be the only chance to get his entire body on one sheet of film at a magnification of 1:1--could be neat! (or maybe I'll just have to keep getting larger and larger cameras as he outgrows the 11x14"--yeah, that's the ticket...).

Now if the weather cooperates and gives us some good window light, I figure we're in business. I'd rather not use strobes. The plan is to set up the camera, bring in the baby when everything is ready, and make it a quick shoot. I'll probably leave the camera set up for a few days so I can process the film and try different things.

SuzanneR · Dec 14, 2006

That's not a portrait, David, that's a still life!!!

All kidding aside, as Melchoir starts to move, your cameras may get smaller. I shoot a lot of MF with my kids, and for clients. I've done a bit with a 4x5, but that does take a little er...bribery... I mean careful negotiation with older kids! But well worth the effort!

SuzanneR · Dec 14, 2006

I realized. I didn't answer Nicole's orginal post.

Still learning to do this myself, but the hardest thing to do in portraiture, particularly with people you don't know, is developing an emotional connection. The best portraits, I think, happen when you as a photographer really make an effort to get to know your subject. Often hard when you don't know them very well, but including them in the process... letting them know what you are doing will help them feel more comfortable, and open up.

Then it may actually be possible to get past the cheesy grins.

Looking forward to more of your thoughts, Nicole, and welcome back.

jimgalli · Dec 14, 2006

Nicole, I'm very glad you're mending, and even more glad you've set your mind in motion beyond the limitations of now.

I'm a proud dad of 3 girls, my single best accomplishment. My middle girl, Tina, is employed at one of those picture factories in a mall that does child portraiture all day long. A steady stream of kids. And while I'm excited for her to have the opportunity to get very comfortable with the equipment and the lights and the people I also realize that is about all she can take with her when she leaves the factory picture biz sometime in the future.

Lately I've been reading everything I can get my hands on about Imogen Cunningham. Her child portraits were mostly of her own kids, and there were a few others like a knock out of Brett Weston, but she embodies in all of her portraiture what I would strive to achieve. That is, that the camera and all the other baggage we photogs carry about with us was secondary or worse. (I've also read that her negs were atrociously bad) but what comes through in all of her portraits is human curiosity. I sense that when she photographed someone she really took whatever time it took to get the person to open up who they truly are. When that was accomplished it was just a matter of an old Rollei putting it on the film.

Now for that to happen there is some human alchemy involved that goes way beyond cameras and film. I'm a dabbler. But if you look at my web pages it's easy to see where my limitations occur. I photograph my own babies because they love me and are more than comfortable around me, and beyond that, I pretty well stick to scruffy looking older males. Alchemy is the reason. Those are the folks I'm comfortable with and they are comfortable with me. Will I move beyond that limitation? Time will tell. Imogen had the capacity to engage the person, no matter who it was, and get the real them onto the film.

Blighty · Dec 14, 2006

I don't have much of a problem photographing kids; I just get physically down to their level and interact with them. If that means being silly or kidding them along with something, then fine. What I do seem to have a problem with is explaining to parents what I'm actually trying to achieve. That is, a natural portrait, capturing the essence of the child in his/her environment lit with available light. Something gets lost in the translation because all the parents (well, the parents I know) want is some kind of supermarket snapshot with the usual cheesy smiles. What I'm trying to say is it's a hard job at times selling my style to prospective clients. How do you do it Nicole?

resummerfield · Dec 14, 2006

Suzanne Revy said:
.....the hardest thing to do in portraiture, particularly with people you don't know, is developing an emotional connection. The best portraits, I think, happen when you as a photographer really make an effort to get to know your subject......

This is my biggest problem in portraiture, and it seems overwhelming. The only solution I see is to practice, practice, and then practice some more.

Glad to see you're back, Nicole!

TheFlyingCamera · Dec 14, 2006

I feel like I'm my own worst critic when it comes to portraiture. The "regular" portraits I do, I always feel like they could have been better, but my clients seem to really like them. I know I'd like to learn more about lighting portraits with multiple lights - how to figure out how to get that pesky hair light aimed, camera focused, pose composed on the groundglass, all without any assistant.

It's rather funny though, how much easier people become to work with when they're nude. I guess if they're relaxed enough to be naked in front of you and the camera, the inhibitions that make them freeze up with clothes on are gone, so they just pose and relax and move more freely, and it works easier.

David H. Bebbington · Dec 14, 2006

First of all, I too am glad to see you back!

With regard to child portraiture, I have a great regret that, in over 50 years of photography, during which I have assiduously supported the industry by buying much equipment, both good and bad, and despite the fact that, like everyone else in the world, I know the phrase "Watch the birdie!", I have never actually seen a single example of the said spring-loaded pop-up birdie attachment on sale (I've seen them in use whe I was a child). Where have they all gone? Are they being hoarded as priceless collector items? I would have loved to use one - I imagine with young enough children they would work as well as ever.

Best wishes,

David

wfe · Dec 14, 2006

My focus is on connecting with people when I photograph them and hopefully capturing emotion, personality and pretty much something about them and who they are. I also try very hard to make what I call "my pictures" and avoid cliche. As far as what I want to know this would involve lighting relative to the subject and what I am trying to capture and simply establishing relationships and engaging people to make them comfortable and open up to me. I also believe that a tremendous trust must be established, honored and never violated. So it is all of these things and much more that I am learning and practicing.

Cheers,
Bill

smileyguy · Dec 14, 2006

This is a great thread and I've subscribed to it so I can more easily keep an eye on things.

I'm not a pro, first of all, but I do enjoy taking good photos and have been paid for some of my work. I was approached a little while ago by neighbours to take their family portraits for them to send in xmas cards etc. I was terrified as most of what I do is landscapes, macros, candids, stuff like that. I told them that they wouldn't be getting "studio" portraits, which was fine by them as they wanted to be outside in the woods.

What I discovered on the shoot was a tremendous lack of ability to "manage" the shoot. Directing people, getting good poses out of them (when the family DID want a "posed" shot I found it difficult), finding and knowing poses that flatter people. I find EVERYBODY (and every BODY) beautiful but I would love to know more about making somebody's body attractive to THEM. The family I was shooting was a very handsome family. Easy subjects in that way. But I know that the parents are concious (but proud) of their noses. Mom is concious of her weight and hips. She is stunning and has a beautiful smile so when I was shooting her alone it was headshots only. Very easy, stunning eyes, beautiful smile. BUT how to get even more out of a subject?

Kids I find kind of easy to shoot, in a way. I tend to wait and wait for a look and shoot that. I spend all day with my own kids and I know what makes them laugh and can get that out of them. It's mostly the same for other kids. I'm not afraid to be silly so that certainly helps. But again, getting more out of them. Or capturing more of the "person".

So what do I want to know about portraiture???

Developing a style? Managing a shoot? Flattering poses? Connecting with the subject? Advice for "managing" natural light i.e., reflecting, bouncing, angles, etc.? In short, everything!

dianna · Dec 14, 2006

I have the same problem... I'm in the "practice" phase right now. I volunteer to shoot families and kids for free just for the practice and experience. My friends know my style, I have portraits of my own kids on the walls at work, and everyone at work admires the portraits. When I hand them a set of hand-printed, matted work of their own kids that I consider to be portfolio quality work, I can tell they were hoping for the department store special with toothy smiles and the fall leaves backdrop.

My main problem seems to be that there's practically nobody out there who really wants the kind of portraits I make.

Here are some examples of my own work that I like and feel proud of (negative scans attached).

I start to doubt myself at times!

Blighty said:
I don't have much of a problem photographing kids; I just get physically down to their level and interact with them. If that means being silly or kidding them along with something, then fine. What I do seem to have a problem with is explaining to parents what I'm actually trying to achieve. That is, a natural portrait, capturing the essence of the child in his/her environment lit with available light. Something gets lost in the translation because all the parents (well, the parents I know) want is some kind of supermarket snapshot with the usual cheesy smiles. What I'm trying to say is it's a hard job at times selling my style to prospective clients. How do you do it Nicole?

TheFlyingCamera · Dec 14, 2006

Dianna - those are great kid portraits. I generally shudder violently when I hear "children's portraiture" because the phrase automatically brings to mind the tacky cheesy mall portraits with the obnoxious fake backgrounds and the over-posed grimmaces. Enough saccarine already! I'm not yet a diabetic, ya tryin' ta make me one????

If I had kids, I'd love to have you shoot portraits of them, since you seem to have the knack of getting them the way they should be already. Keep up the good work.

matti · Dec 14, 2006

Not easy to answer. I DO want (and need!) to learn a lot more. Portraits are what I enjoy the most and my kids are the subjects I shoot the most (see my gallery). But I have no idea about how to tackle the subject in a more theoretical way. When I am behind the camera I seem to just watch and waste film. Not thinking really.

/matti

SuzanneR · Dec 14, 2006

First of all, Dianna, those are great portraits.

As for getting parents to not want that cheesy portrait factory... well, explain to them that they can go to one of those places, and for considerably less money get them. I don't even have to go to the portrait factory... they come to the kids' school twice a year! So cheesy pix are taken care of!

Make sure they know your work, and your style. Don't apologize for it, and with experience, you'll feel more confortable asking clients to take that ridiculous bow out of their daughter's hair! (You know... nicely!)

I'll often start with a few cheesy, smiley portaits, and move quickly to more fun stuff. Once they see them, they'll often find that smiley stuff a bit boring compared to the rest. And if they REALLY don't seem to "get" your style... say "no" to the job.

Derek Lofgreen · Dec 14, 2006

Welcome back Nicole. I am so glad to see you posting again.

Okay, here is one for you all. The parents! How do you manage the parents? I can't tell you how many parents yell at there kids "SMILE for the camera, SMILE, SMILE". It terrifies the little kids and very hard to get a natural portrait with the parents shouting at there kids all the time.

Another thing would be nice is to know how to handle kids from 2-5 years. They are unpredictable to say the least. Do you just follow them around with the camera?

D.

eddym · Dec 14, 2006

dianna said:
My main problem seems to be that there's practically nobody out there who really wants the kind of portraits I make.

I know the feeling. That's why I'm closing my portrait studio at the end of this month. It's a tough way to make a living.

dianna · Dec 14, 2006

Thank you so much for the kind words!

TheFlyingCamera said:
Dianna - those are great kid portraits. I generally shudder violently when I hear "children's portraiture" because the phrase automatically brings to mind the tacky cheesy mall portraits with the obnoxious fake backgrounds and the over-posed grimmaces. Enough saccarine already! I'm not yet a diabetic, ya tryin' ta make me one????

If I had kids, I'd love to have you shoot portraits of them, since you seem to have the knack of getting them the way they should be already. Keep up the good work.

dianna · Dec 14, 2006

I'm so sorry about that. I looked at your site and your work is beautiful. The portraits are a modern twist on 1930's glamour! My favorite series is the couple.

eddym said:
I know the feeling. That's why I'm closing my portrait studio at the end of this month. It's a tough way to make a living.

dianna · Dec 14, 2006

Thanks Suzanne! That's a great idea, to start with some posed/cheesy shots and move on to the fun stuff. I'll give that a try.

Suzanne Revy said:
First of all, Dianna, those are great portraits.

As for getting parents to not want that cheesy portrait factory... well, explain to them that they can go to one of those places, and for considerably less money get them. I don't even have to go to the portrait factory... they come to the kids' school twice a year! So cheesy pix are taken care of!

Make sure they know your work, and your style. Don't apologize for it, and with experience, you'll feel more confortable asking clients to take that ridiculous bow out of their daughter's hair! (You know... nicely!)

I'll often start with a few cheesy, smiley portaits, and move quickly to more fun stuff. Once they see them, they'll often find that smiley stuff a bit boring compared to the rest. And if they REALLY don't seem to "get" your style... say "no" to the job.

So what is it YOU really want to know about Portraiture & Childhood Photography?

Nicole

Mark Pope

photogolf

arigram

noseoil

Robert Hall

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

SuzanneR

Moderator

SuzanneR

Moderator

jimgalli

Blighty

resummerfield

TheFlyingCamera

Membership Council

David H. Bebbington

wfe

smileyguy

dianna

Attachments

TheFlyingCamera

Membership Council

matti

SuzanneR

Moderator

Derek Lofgreen

eddym

dianna

dianna

dianna

So what is it YOU really want to know about Portraiture & Childhood Photography?

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Moderator

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