So much for mechanical cameras

Alex Benjamin · Jul 20, 2023

Interesting that many here have focused on how the cameras are made—mechanical vs electronic—and not on the fact that mechanical camera repair as a trade/profession, has not followed the resurgence in film popularity but has essentially become obsolete, with older repairmen retiring and no younger ones to take their place.

Mechanical cameras always broke. Used to be, though, and not that long ago, that in any medium-sized town you had a chance of finding someone who had at least basic knowledge on how a camera worked and could either do simple repair or tell you where to go in a bigger not-too-far town to find someone who could.

If we had the same people today able to do basic repair on mechanical cameras than we had 30 years ago, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Now you have to send it away and suffer long waiting lists not only because there are so few but also because the few that are left have become hyper-specialized, i.e., this guy only does Leica, this guy, Nikon, this guy, Pentax, etc.

runswithsizzers · Jul 20, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
You forgot

6. I will be replaced by an AI which will artificially create the photos I would have taken had I gone outside to take photos.

Maybe. But AI is probably too smart to make the kind of photos I take. ;-)

Kino · Jul 20, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
Interesting that many here have focused on how the cameras are made—mechanical vs electronic—and not on the fact that mechanical camera repair as a trade/profession, has not followed the resurgence in film popularity but has essentially become obsolete, with older repairmen retiring and no younger ones to take their place.

Mechanical cameras always broke. Used to be, though, and not that long ago, that in any medium-sized town you had a chance of finding someone who had at least basic knowledge on how a camera worked and could either do simple repair or tell you where to go in a bigger not-too-far town to find someone who could.

If we had the same people today able to do basic repair on mechanical cameras than we had 30 years ago, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Now you have to send it away and suffer long waiting lists not only because there are so few but also because the few that are left have become hyper-specialized, i.e., this guy only does Leica, this guy, Nikon, this guy, Pentax, etc.

Try to find someone to repair a 1990's electronic camera. Its all the same.

runswithsizzers · Jul 20, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
Interesting that many here have focused on how the cameras are made—mechanical vs electronic—and not on the fact that mechanical camera repair as a trade/profession, has not followed the resurgence in film popularity but has essentially become obsolete, with older repairmen retiring and no younger ones to take their place.

I fear this really goes to the heart of the matter. Back in December of last year, I sent a Konica Autoreflex T4 to Greg Weber for repairs. Long story short, Greg has had some health issues and he is getting out of the camera repair business. As far as I know, he has not passed on his considerable knowledge and experience to the next generation of camera repair persons.

Alex Benjamin said:
Mechanical cameras always broke. Used to be, though, and not that long ago, that in any medium-sized town you had a chance of finding someone who had at least basic knowledge on how a camera worked and could either do simple repair or tell you where to go in a bigger not-too-far town to find someone who could.

In my medium-size town, we used to have a repair guy named Bill. Everyone called him "Hundred Dollar Bill." The last job Bill did for me was to CLA my Kodak Carousel slide projector in 2004. Six years later, when the Carousel broke a plastic gear, Bill was retired, and I had to repair it myself. While trying to figure out what needed to be done, and in what order, I sure was missing Bill. I would have gladly given him his price to fix it.

Alex Benjamin said:
If we had the same people today able to do basic repair on mechanical cameras than we had 30 years ago, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Now you have to send it away and suffer long waiting lists not only because there are so few but also because the few that are left have become hyper-specialized, i.e., this guy only does Leica, this guy, Nikon, this guy, Pentax, etc.

awty · Jul 20, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
I still have my Revere 3-lens turret 8mm windup movie camera from 1957. Do they still make film for it?

Yes, you can still get double perforated 16mm film. I have a single lens Revere that I got working again, havent used it, but the clock work gear sounds fine.

awty · Jul 20, 2023

cerber0s said:
I play guitar and frequent a few guitar forums. The exact same discussions surface on those forums from time to time, digital amplifiers vs analog amplifiers, valves (tubes) vs solid state, the sound of this vs that, how much easier it is to repair a tube amp vs a modern digital amp, the future availability of new tubes etc. etc.

There are still manufactures of tubes in China and Russia, theres also plenty of good old tubes still out there. Modern circuit boards will fail and not be repairable, but its still viable to make a solid state or tube amp. Ive made several.

awty · Jul 20, 2023

Must be sad for people who cant make or fix things for themselves, was never an option for me.

cerber0s · Jul 20, 2023

awty said:
There are still manufactures of tubes in China and Russia, theres also plenty of good old tubes still out there. Modern circuit boards will fail and not be repairable, but its still viable to make a solid state or tube amp. Ive made several.

Yes, those are the exact discussions going on at guitar forums. You just stated the arguments of team tube

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 20, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
These days almost any car or truck that deploys an air bag is totaled out because neither the insurance companies nor the repair shops want to put themselves in the position where the deployed air bag was replaced and did not work later at a subsequent accident.

I can't imagine the dealer for the manufacturer saying they won't replace an air bag. Airbag replacement is less than $1000. The insurance company pays for replacement as part of their liability or collision coverage. They don't insure the work of the repair company. The repair company insures their own work, if they have insurance. The insurance company isn;'t responsible for bad repairs. If the bag fails subsequently, you sue the repair company, or let your insurance company sue them.

Airbag Replacement Cost And Repairs

Did your airbag recently deploy? Are you wondering how much it will cost to repair? We answer all your questions and more.

sellmax.com

retina_restoration · Jul 20, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
...the fact that mechanical camera repair as a trade/profession, has not followed the resurgence in film popularity but has essentially become obsolete, with older repairmen retiring and no younger ones to take their place.

Yet another naive generalization.

I took up the slack when Chris Sherlock retired in April 2022, and I am very busy: I repair and/or service an average of four cameras every week. So I am one data point that refutes your claim. One of my friends is a Hasselblad repair technician and he's been doing it professionally for only a few years as well. There are many of us entering the service technician trade in recent years.

Pioneer · Jul 20, 2023

retina_restoration said:
Yet another naive generalization.

I took up the slack when Chris Sherlock retired in April 2022, and I am very busy: I repair and/or service an average of four cameras every week. So I am one data point that refutes your claim. One of my friends is a Hasselblad repair technician and he's been doing it professionally for only a few years as well. There are many of us entering the service technician trade in recent years.

That is great news! Now I know where to send my Retina when it next needs attention.

Alex Benjamin · Jul 20, 2023

retina_restoration said:
Yet another naive generalization.

I took up the slack when Chris Sherlock retired in April 2022, and I am very busy: I repair and/or service an average of four cameras every week. So I am one data point that refutes your claim. One of my friends is a Hasselblad repair technician and he's been doing it professionally for only a few years as well. There are many of us entering the service technician trade in recent years.

Well, first, every generalization is naive. That's the nature of the beast.

Second, unless one goes through an intensive investigation into the matter, generalizing from what you observe—generally speaking—is the only way to go. My observation, at least where I am, lead me to this generalization.

Now, I'm happy to learn that there may be many entering the trade. That's reassuring. Not what I'm seeing, and not what I'm hearing elsewhere, but still, reassured. However, before I change my opinion, which I am looking forward to, as I have a couple of mechanical cameras that will need repair in the near future. I'll wait to get more than a couple of data points.

4season · Jul 20, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
Now you have to send it away and suffer long waiting lists not only because there are so few but also because the few that are left have become hyper-specialized, i.e., this guy only does Leica, this guy, Nikon, this guy, Pentax, etc.

Problem with being a camera repair jack-of-all-trades is the time needed to understand how different makes and models of cameras work, and it's time that won't necessarily be rewarded. And camera repair itself has become more difficult as parts which were once supplied as complete modules must now be repaired at the component level. Aside from owners of expensive cameras such as Leica M, Rolleiflex, or Hasselblad, most folks will also balk at paying $200 or more to fix say, a Pentax Spotmatic.

Sirius Glass · Jul 20, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
I can't imagine the dealer for the manufacturer saying they won't replace an air bag. Airbag replacement is less than $1000. The insurance company pays for replacement as part of their liability or collision coverage. They don't insure the work of the repair company. The repair company insures their own work, if they have insurance. The insurance company isn;'t responsible for bad repairs. If the bag fails subsequently, you sue the repair company, or let your insurance company sue them.

Airbag Replacement Cost And Repairs

Did your airbag recently deploy? Are you wondering how much it will cost to repair? We answer all your questions and more.

sellmax.com

And repair places do not want to replace deployed airbags for that reason.

retina_restoration · Jul 20, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
Now you have to send it away and suffer long waiting lists not only because there are so few but also because the few that are left have become hyper-specialized, i.e., this guy only does Leica, this guy, Nikon, this guy, Pentax, etc.

I don't think "long waiting lists" is a new thing. Seems to me in the 1980s it took about 3 months to get my Nikon FM2 repaired.
Me? I try to stay on top of my work queue so that it takes no more than five working days from the time a camera arrives, to having it ready to box up and send back.

albada · Jul 20, 2023

retina_restoration said:
Yet another naive generalization.

I took up the slack when Chris Sherlock retired in April 2022, and I am very busy: I repair and/or service an average of four cameras every week. So I am one data point that refutes your claim. One of my friends is a Hasselblad repair technician and he's been doing it professionally for only a few years as well. There are many of us entering the service technician trade in recent years.

Paul Barden is another fellow who jumped in when Chris Sherlock retired. So that's a net gain of one repairman.

Mark

MattKing · Jul 21, 2023

albada said:
Paul Barden is another fellow who jumped in when Chris Sherlock retired. So that's a net gain of one repairman.

Mark

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that there is no net gain in this particular circumstance

Europan · Jul 21, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
I still have my Revere 3-lens turret 8mm windup movie camera from 1957. Do they still make film for it?

Yes, as of today you can buy

Fomapan R 100, 25’ und 100’; several dealers* and directly from Foma Bohemia**
BW 40, Film Photography Project, Fair Lawn = ORWO DN 2, 25’ $25.99, 100’ $89.99;
BW 100 reversal from FPP = Kodak Tri-X reversal type 7266, 25’ $26.99, 100’ $89.99;
BW 100 negative, FPP = ORWO UN 54, 25’ $25.99, 100’ $89.99;
400 BW negative, FPP = ORWO N 74, 25’ $25.99, 100’ $89.99;
X 2 negative, FPP = Kodak Double-X negative, 25’ $25.99;
X 2 reversal, FPP = Kodak Plus-X reversal type 7265, 25’ ;
Sepia 10, FPP, chromogenous development after ECN-2, in the US only
50 D, FPP = Kodak Vision 3 color negative type 7203, 25’;
100 D, FPP = Kodak Ektachrome 100, daylight, type 7294, 25’ $69.99, $59 at D. T.
WittnerVision 50D = Kodak Vision3 color negative type 7203, 25’ € 39,90, 100’ € 139,90;
Kodak Vision color print film type 3383, D. T.

_________________________________________

*Analogue Wonderland, Loudwater, England; Maco, Stapelfeld, Germany; B. & H., New York City, Dennis Toeppen, Urbana, IL; Fotohuis, Ravenstein, Netherlands, and others

**Works and store in Hradec Králové, store in Prague

RalphLambrecht · Jul 21, 2023

Arthurwg said:
This is why I keep a never used NOS Hasselblad on my shelf.

not using mechanical cameras does them the most harm!

Bronson Dugnutt · Jul 21, 2023

Europan said:
Yes, as of today you can buy

Fomapan R 100, 25’ und 100’; several dealers* and directly from Foma Bohemia**

BW 40, Film Photography Project, Fair Lawn = ORWO DN 2, 25’ $25.99, 100’ $89.99;

BW 100 reversal from FPP = Kodak Tri-X reversal type 7266, 25’ $26.99, 100’ $89.99;

BW 100 negative, FPP = ORWO UN 54, 25’ $25.99, 100’ $89.99;

400 BW negative, FPP = ORWO N 74, 25’ $25.99, 100’ $89.99;

X 2 negative, FPP = Kodak Double-X negative, 25’ $25.99;

X 2 reversal, FPP = Kodak Plus-X reversal type 7265, 25’ ;

Sepia 10, FPP, chromogenous development after ECN-2, in the US only

50 D, FPP = Kodak Vision 3 color negative type 7203, 25’;

100 D, FPP = Kodak Ektachrome 100, daylight, type 7294, 25’ $69.99, $59 at D. T.

WittnerVision 50D = Kodak Vision3 color negative type 7203, 25’ € 39,90, 100’ € 139,90;

Kodak Vision color print film type 3383, D. T.

_________________________________________

*Analogue Wonderland, Loudwater, England; Maco, Stapelfeld, Germany; B. & H., New York City, Dennis Toeppen, Urbana, IL; Fotohuis, Ravenstein, Netherlands, and others

**Works and store in Hradec Králové, store in Prague

koraks · Jul 21, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
mechanical camera repair as a trade/profession, has not followed the resurgence in film popularity

Well, this 'resurgance' still makes for a rather tiny market if you extrapolate it to the demand for camera repairs. Not exactly an ecosystem that's going to keep a repairman in every modest city in employment. So you end up with only a handful qualified repairmen in a country - or a continent. It's kind of a logical consequence.

retina_restoration said:
and I am very busy: I repair and/or service an average of four cameras every week.

Good illustration. A repair needs to run around $300 or so a piece, on average, for it to constitute a reasonable income in a developed, Western nation. This is assuming that the costs of parts and materials are nearly negligible, as are investments in tools and training etc.

Bill Burk · Jul 21, 2023

4season said:
I've been teaching myself how to repair cameras…

I think it's simply a matter of the camera designer not anticipating that their creations might still be in use decades later.

Good for you! More and more people are doing this. And learning to do it right, not just a little lighter fluid and WD-40.

I was learning on ES-II and find they can be had for twenty bucks. They always have the same problems. And I have a few spares for parts if ever needed.

I got one cleaned up and working 100% and stopped doing work on the rest because I was happy with the good one. Should have kept working on them because the good one is already starting to falter. I wish I could just grab the next one and keep shooting. I wish they had over-engineered the mirror return catch because it takes a fair second curtain velocity to make the mirror return. You have to hit pretty hard.

albireo · Jul 21, 2023

Interesting discussion. So I had a couple of pretty terrible repair experiences over the past year. The main one was a repair odyssey involving my beloved, and still broken to this day, Minolta Autocord (I will write a separate post about this - but thank you very much for nothing at all, Sandro Presta).

Anyhow - I'm at the point I can't be arsed anymore. I just want to take pictures and not wait 8 months without my camera and then regularly spend its value worth in repairs every couple of years or so.

So I'm more and more leaning towards my trustworthy, plasticky, unloved by many, electronic 90s cameras. I have a few that just keep ticking and ticking like a Casio watch. Are they pretty? Kind of, who cares? Do they do what's on the tin? IME yea, unfailingly so.

So off I go with my N90s, F301, Fuji GA645i. Some ugly ducklings I spent respectively $50 $30 and $400 to purchase, and which are giving me results I will treasure for years. And they keep working, and working and working.

'But, Batteries"! - I can buy them cheap off amazon, and they'll last for years
Electronics will fail! - I will dump the whole camera and buy another one. In fact I have a few backup bodies aligned.
But they look like modern digital cameras so nobody will know you're shooting film - happy with that
But the beauty of the manual controls is lost! - love manual controls and TLR ergonomics, so I suppose I will have to live with this compromise.

Long live unrepairable 90s Japanese electronics

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 21, 2023

MattKing said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that there is no net gain in this particular circumstance

Reminds me of the re-married widow who claimed she didn't lose a husband. She gained an inheritance.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 21, 2023

Europan said:
Yes, as of today you can buy

Fomapan R 100, 25’ und 100’; several dealers* and directly from Foma Bohemia**

BW 40, Film Photography Project, Fair Lawn = ORWO DN 2, 25’ $25.99, 100’ $89.99;

BW 100 reversal from FPP = Kodak Tri-X reversal type 7266, 25’ $26.99, 100’ $89.99;

BW 100 negative, FPP = ORWO UN 54, 25’ $25.99, 100’ $89.99;

400 BW negative, FPP = ORWO N 74, 25’ $25.99, 100’ $89.99;

X 2 negative, FPP = Kodak Double-X negative, 25’ $25.99;

X 2 reversal, FPP = Kodak Plus-X reversal type 7265, 25’ ;

Sepia 10, FPP, chromogenous development after ECN-2, in the US only

50 D, FPP = Kodak Vision 3 color negative type 7203, 25’;

100 D, FPP = Kodak Ektachrome 100, daylight, type 7294, 25’ $69.99, $59 at D. T.

WittnerVision 50D = Kodak Vision3 color negative type 7203, 25’ € 39,90, 100’ € 139,90;

Kodak Vision color print film type 3383, D. T.

_________________________________________

*Analogue Wonderland, Loudwater, England; Maco, Stapelfeld, Germany; B. & H., New York City, Dennis Toeppen, Urbana, IL; Fotohuis, Ravenstein, Netherlands, and others

**Works and store in Hradec Králové, store in Prague

I didn't realize so many films were available. First thing I have to do though is digitize the (43) 50 foot rolls that my wife's father took years ago. They're still sitting in our closet. It might be cheaper to buy a projector. Mine broke. What's a good resale unit to buy that's fairly reliable after all these years?

So much for mechanical cameras

Alex Benjamin

runswithsizzers

Kino

runswithsizzers

awty

awty

awty

cerber0s

Alan Edward Klein

Airbag Replacement Cost And Repairs

retina_restoration

Pioneer

Alex Benjamin

4season

Sirius Glass

Airbag Replacement Cost And Repairs

retina_restoration

albada

MattKing

Moderator

Europan

RalphLambrecht

Bronson Dugnutt

koraks

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Bill Burk

albireo

Alan Edward Klein

Alan Edward Klein

So much for mechanical cameras

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