So, Just What Is "Kentmere" Darkroom Paper Supposed To Be ?

[DF]

Simply a name switch from "Ilford" ?

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Kentmere is Ilford’s “budget” brand meant for the educational market where they sell it for a little less margin in an effort to help students and schools out. If everybody stopped buying Ilford and switched to kentmere instead you’d see the price of kentmere match what Ilford is charging for Ilford products in pretty quick succession after that. Other than that, it’s a lower cost emulsion with probably some budgetary shortcuts taken during production so they don’t take a total bath on the margin. Some of the stuff costs the same no matter what, like paper, canisters, packaging, etc.

 

[miha]

Kentmere is my RC paper of choice. Fast, cool tone.

 

[Willyekerslike]

OH bother another one for my ignore list......

 

[Pat Erson]

Kentmere is my RC paper of choice. Fast, cool tone.

Now the new MGRC paper is strangely similar* to Kentmere's that sounds like a reasonable choice...

(* = apart from the paper base itself which is thinner on the Kentmere paper)

 

[Don_ih]

Kentmere used to be its own company and made some papers that people really liked. I think they exist only as a brand name, now, being what Adrian said they are (budget line).

As an aside, what does

another one for my ignore list.

mean?

 

[miha]

Now the new MGRC paper is strangely similar* to Kentmere's that sounds like a reasonable choice...

(* = apart from the paper base itself which is thinner on the Kentmere paper)

This is the exact opposite to what I read* on the Ilford paper - warmer and thinner

*no first-hand experience with the Ilford V.

 

[Pat Erson]

No the Ilford is MORE expensive/premium product therefore they use a thicker/better paper base. Logical isn't it?

As far as papers look... the old MGIV looked very different than Kentmere. But the new MGRC (aka MG V) looks similar to the Kentmere one.

I can say from personal experience that you could tell what was MGIV and what was Kentmere in a water tray full of contact-sheets : the visual difference would jump at you. It's now harder to tell the Kentmere from the MGRC (as if the MGRC was a compromise between the Kentmere formula and the old MGIV's).
Personnally I think the MGRC is a notable step backward compared to the lovely MGIV and its stunning gamut of grey.

 

[NB23]

No the Ilford is MORE expensive/premium product therefore they use a thicker/better paper base. Logical isn't it?

As far as papers look... the old MGIV looked very different than Kentmere. But the new MGRC (aka MG V) looks similar to the Kentmere one.

I can say from personal experience that you could tell what was MGIV and what was Kentmere in a water tray full of contact-sheets : the visual difference would jump at you. It's now harder to tell the Kentmere from the MGRC (as if the MGRC was a compromise between the Kentmere formula and the old MGIV's).
Personnally I think the MGRC is a notable step backward compared to the lovely MGIV and its stunning gamut of grey.

Totally. A business move, the signs of time; downgrading a product as much as acceptable for profit.

Anyhow, MGIV was excellent and The Pearl finish paper was actually on the warm side.

 

[pentaxuser]

(* = apart from the paper base itself which is thinner on the Kentmere paper)

I have used both Ilford MGIV and Kentmere and I can't say I have noticed the paper base being any thinner. Both papers are the same weight in terms of grms per square metre according to Ilford

pentaxuser

 

[pentaxuser]

So can I ask, DF, is it any clearer now what Kentmere paper is supposed to be, and if not what still puzzles you?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[faberryman]

Kentmere 100 and 400 film is made, marketed, and sold by Ilford at a lower cost than its Ilford branded film. Is it the same film as the Ilford branded film for which Ilford has decided to sell at a lower profit margin in order to capture the segment of the film enthusiast community which is price sensitive, or it a different formulation? If it is a different formulation, what is it about the formulation that makes it less expensive to manufacture? Same questions for Kentmere enlarging paper.

 

[pentaxuser]

Kentmere 100 and 400 film is made, marketed, and sold by Ilford at a lower cost than its Ilford branded film. Is it the same film as the Ilford branded film for which Ilford has decided to sell at a lower profit margin in order to capture the segment of the film enthusiast community which is price sensitive, or it a different formulation? If it is a different formulation, what is it about the formulation that makes it less expensive to manufacture? Same questions for Kentmere enlarging paper.

These sound like good questions for Ilford itself unless anyone here can give "chapter and verse" on these questions unqualified by any requirement to make some best intelligent guesses based on the limits of our knowledge

pentaxuser

 

[faberryman]

These sound like good questions for Ilford itself unless anyone here can give "chapter and verse" on these questions unqualified by any requirement to make some best intelligent guesses based on the limits of our knowledge.

It seemed like a question that might have come up before and I thought someone on the forum might know.

 

[Paul Howell]

"Kentmere 100 and 400 film is made, marketed, and sold by Ilford at a lower cost than its Ilford branded film. Is it the same film as the Ilford branded film "

Reading the Kentmere 400 data sheet, no anti-halation layer, all ILford branded film has an anti-halation layer. In my experience Kentmere seem to have a bit more grain. In terms of paper, not sure of what practical difference there are, if it looks good it is good. If you like the results why spend time and energy thinking about it, go out and buy another box and go on printing.

 

[MattKing]

Harman Technology Ltd. is the corporation that rescued the Ilford black and white production from the receivers when Ilford in the UK went under. They retain the license to put "Ilford" on their black and white materials. They also have a lease on the manufacturing facility in Mobberly. Harman was started by a number of ex-Ilford employees, ands maintained the employment of some others. They also got a lot of the proprietary knowledge.
Harman purchased the old Kentmere corporation, with the intention of running it and selling its products as well, but severe environmental concerns with their production facility forced Harman to close the Kentmere facility down. Some of the Kentmere lines could be converted for production at Moberly, while others (POP) had to be cancelled forever.
A few years ago, Harman upgraded their fibre based paper line, leaving the old MGIV RC in production, along with the more budget friendly Kentmere line of paper and films.
Harman recently upgraded the Ilford branded RC paper line to be more consistent with the fibre based paper. Some refer to that as MGV RC, although Harman doesn't.
Many really like the changes made in the most recent RC paper line - particularly the improved behavior with low contrast filtration. Par Erson doesn't.
If you buy and use Harman's Kentmere branded RC papers, you are using good quality product, with less of a choice in size and image tone than Harman's Ilford branded RC papers.

 

[faberryman]

Reading the Kentmere 400 data sheet, no anti-halation layer, all ILford branded film has an anti-halation layer. In my experience Kentmere seem to have a bit more grain. In terms of paper, not sure of what practical difference there are, if it looks good it is good. If you like the results why spend time and energy thinking about it, go out and buy another box and go on printing.

I apologize for asking the questions before doing a search. I have now found a 2011 post in which an APUG member said that he had received confirmation from Simon Galley at Harman that the Ilford and Kentmere films were different emulsions formulated for different markets. With respect to Kentmere papers, upon further research, it turns out that Kentmere fiber based papers are no longer being made. I prefer fiber based papers, so Kentmere is not an option for me.

 

[cmacd123]

AS far as the Kentmere RC paper. My experience has been that the Kentmere paper is "Faster" than the Illford brand.

I believe that the Kentmere 100 and 400 films have replaced the Ilford PAN 100 and 400 films, which were sold in various geographic regions where the price had to be lower, and so the product is similar but not identical to the normal HP5 etc products. this in the case of the Kentmere includes the "Budget" or School Markets. Basically the same end use as the Arista EDU Ukltra line is shooting for.

 

[miha]

AS far as the Kentmere RC paper. My experience has been that the Kentmere paper is "Faster" than the Illford brand.

I believe that the Kentmere 100 and 400 films have replaced the Ilford PAN 100 and 400 films, which were sold in various geographic regions where the price had to be lower, and so the product is similar but not identical to the normal HP5 etc products. this in the case of the Kentmere includes the "Budget" or School Markets. Basically the same end use as the Arista EDU Ukltra line is shooting for.

PAN 100 and 400 are still available alongside the Kentmere films.

 

[Paul Howell]

"With respect to Kentmere papers, upon further research, it turns out that Kentmere fiber based papers are no longer being made. I prefer fiber based papers, so Kentmere is not an option for me."

I was going to recommend Photo Wearhouse's Unltrafine Silver Eagle FB, VC double wt paper, but it is out of stock, hope they get an order filled, I do use it along with Foma.
https://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulprfibavcco.html

 

[Adrian Bacon]

PAN 100 and 400 are still available alongside the Kentmere films.

Maybe in other countries, but it's not on the price list of what you can order here in the U.S.

 

[faberryman]

I was going to recommend Photo Wearhouse's Unltrafine Silver Eagle FB, VC double wt paper, but it is out of stock, hope they get an order filled, I do use it along with Foma.
https://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulprfibavcco.html

Thanks for the suggestion. I am happy with Ilford Multigrade FB Warmtone, so I'll stick with it.

 

[cmacd123]

PAN 100 and 400 are still available alongside the Kentmere films.

Thank you , I am not in one of the places where the Ilford 100 and 400 are traditionally sold, so the only ones I have seen came from online sellers. those listings have not been seen lately.

 

[cmacd123]

Maybe in other countries, but it's not on the price list of what you can order here in the U.S.

yes, the product is not existent by looking at he normal Ilford information sources. I recall Simon Galley at one time conformed it did exist but only in "selected markets"

 

[miha]

Maybe in other countries, but it's not on the price list of what you can order here in the U.S.

In the UK and Europe, all these films are readily available, I guess in other markets as well. If something is not available in the U.S. it doesn't mean it has been discontinued.