So is it a silver-gelatin or a gelatin-silver print?

[Photo Engineer]

That's how I first came across it: a simple, fairly accurate way for curators to describe what it was. It was not a pretentious version of 'black and white print'. It has been around for a while - it predates digital inkjet printing and, therefore, was not originally a reaction to it.

Best,
Helen

It did predate digital, but the use was not generalized until digital came to the forefront. Before that, as you note, it was used mainly by curators, not by the public and not really in mainstream exhibits.

PE

 

[david b]

PE,
I was told the story about the cows by a university professor who lived in Rochester. He has a fierce sense of humor and this must have been a joke to get at the vegans in the class.

 

[Photo Engineer]

PE,
I was told the story about the cows by a university professor who lived in Rochester. He has a fierce sense of humor and this must have been a joke to get at the vegans in the class.

No doubt!

PE

 

[Ian Grant]

It did predate digital, but the use was not generalized until digital came to the forefront. Before that, as you note, it was used mainly by curators, not by the public and not really in mainstream exhibits.

PE

I agree with Helen B and as far back as I can remember when going to art / photography exhibitions serious practitioneers have been labelled their work as Silver Gelatin prints,(or whatever is apt), also Silver-Selenium or Selenium-Silver to convey the additional information that the print has been Selenium toned for archival permanence.

Personaly I prefer a simple but more informative statement that all the prints are silver gelatin, or what ever, and processed for archival permanence, mentioning if they are toned, as long as any potential buyer is given accurate information.

Ian

 

[copake_ham]

Hey, if you want folks to pay a lot you say: Silver-Gelatin

It just "sounds" more valuable....

Then again, either way, someone might think your selling bowls of Jello (c) with silver coins suspended in it!

 

[Flotsam]

Silver Jell-O

Although I've always preferred Green Jell-O with mini marshmallows suspended within it and a shot of whipped cream on top.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Is Green Jello a Fuji product?

PE

 

[sanking]

That's how I first came across it: a simple, fairly accurate way for curators to describe what it was. It was not a pretentious version of 'black and white print'. It has been around for a while - it predates digital inkjet printing and, therefore, was not originally a reaction to it.

Best,
Helen

I agree. The term silver gelatin pre-dates digital inkjet printing by a very long time, at least a couple of decades. I can not remember the first time I saw the term, but it was in the late 70s or early 80s, and in a museum exhibition of a photographer.

I think of myself as both printmaker and photographer, and proper identificaiton as to process is very important to me. Years ago on one of the rec.photo newsgroups I got into a discussion (i.e. = major flame war) on this subject with someone who thought that the best term for all photographs was "picture." All I can say is that he made real bad pictures.

Sandy

 

[lee]

I agree. The term silver gelatin pre-dates digital inkjet printing by a very long time, at least a couple of decades. I can not remember the first time I saw the term, but it was in the late 70s or early 80s, and in a museum exhibition of a photographer.

I think of myself as both printmaker and photographer, and proper identificaiton as to process is very important to me. Years ago on one of the rec.photo newsgroups I got into a discussion (i.e. = major flame war) on this subject with someone who thought that the best term for all photographs was "picture." All I can say is that he made real bad pictures.

Sandy

Sandy,

there are a lot of people here and over at rec.photo that think it is too snooty to refer to the images as they are called by most if not all the art community. I seem to remember a flame war about that to Sandy.

lee\c

 

[Gerald Koch]

I always assumed they used some polymer based coating. I've always used Ilford paper but never heard mention of gelatin.

Many years ago, Kodak conducted experiments using synthetic polymers to replace the more expensive gelatin in their emulsions. They were never completely successful since it was determined that the gelatin is more than just a mechanical support for the silver halide grains. The gelatin actually affects such things as the sensitivity of the emulsion and cannot be completely eliminated. Today's emulsions use both gelatin and certain polymers in their manufacture.

 

[DannL]

Many years ago, Kodak conducted experiments using synthetic polymers to replace the more expensive gelatin in their emulsions. They were never completely successful since it was determined that the gelatin is more than just a mechanical support for the silver halide grains. The gelatin actually affects such things as the sensitivity of the emulsion and cannot be completely eliminated. Today's emulsions use both gelatin and certain polymers in their manufacture.

Albumen (egg whites) is a fairly sturdy substance. My vehicle was egged the first week of July (an entire carton . . . I surely rattled someone's cage) and my concrete driveway was covered in egg whites. Well, that was nearly three months ago (several rain storms and numerous 100F degree days) and it's still there on the concrete. It visually resembles a polyester resin. Anyway, thought I'd mention it. Are Albumen prints called Egg-Silver prints or Silver-Egg prints ??? ;-)

 

[david b]

DannL,
call albumen whatever MOMA tells you to. Good luck with the show.

 

[DannL]

DannL,
call albumen whatever MOMA tells you to. Good luck with the show.

It's MoMA btw, I'm not specifically into Mordern Art myself, nor am I planning a show. I don't think they see much in the way of Albumen prints, but please, feel free to advise me. Are you the guy that Albumened my vehicle?

;-)

 

[JonPorter]

I prefer the more informative and straightforward style many photographers use, such as: "Prints made on archivally-processed Ilford Multigrade IV fiber paper." Or just "Fiber-based silver print."

 

[eddym]

Or just "Fiber-based silver print."

I like this one too.

 

[MattKing]

I think the answer to the original question might depend on what side of the Atlantic ocean you are.

i.e. it is silver-gelatin, if it is 8x10, and it is gelatin-silver, if it is 10x8.

Matt

P.S. - don't forget about RC paper

 

[Bob F.]

I think the answer to the original question might depend on what side of the Atlantic ocean you are.

i.e. it is silver-gelatin, if it is 8x10, and it is gelatin-silver, if it is 10x8.

Matt

P.S. - don't forget about RC paper

Don't you mean CR Paper?...

I noted some time ago that the V&A call them Gelatin-Silver, so far be it for me to argue with such an august institution... http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/photography/processframe.php?processid=pr002

Cheers, Bob.

 

[sanking]

I prefer the more informative and straightforward style many photographers use, such as: "Prints made on archivally-processed Ilford Multigrade IV fiber paper." Or just "Fiber-based silver print."

Is this kind of identification really informative? A hundred years ago the majority of fine-art photographers would have been familiar with the term, "Artigue Charbon-Velour." Anyone here know what kind of print that is?

As for "fiber-based silver print," this could be a print others are calling today a gelatin-silver or silver-gelatin print. However, the term would also apply to a variety of other processes, including but not limited to the following: salted paper, albumen, gelatin Print-Out Paper, Collodion Print-Out Paper, Kallitype, and Vandyke.

Sandy King

 

[Black Dog]

Either IMO

 

[sionnac]

I've heard/seen "gelatin silver" in art galleries and museums. Swann's catalogues list them as "silver prints."