Smith/Chamlee Tray Technique

[gbenaim]

Hi All,

I've been trying to find a description of the Smith/CHamlee tray developing technique, both in the APUG and AZO forum archives, and haven't had any luck. Can someone point me in the direction of such a description? Thanks,

GB

 

[photomc]

GB, don't know the technique but you might try over on their website or the Dead Link Removed that is there to start.

How's the new camera working out? Hope to see some results from it really soon.

 

[scootermm]

You may not be able to find any info on it... I can vaguely remember mention from a fellow photographer that the technique is something they teach in their workshops and ask that people do not share the technique. So perhaps attending one of their workshops is required to learn it.

This is may or may not be true.

Michael occasionally pops in here so perhaps he will chime in. Or better yet just email them.

 

[Larry H-L]

In the times that I have heard them speak at conferences, I think they said that they developed film by inspection using a dark green light.

 

[mark]

The method is written about briefly somewhere, and if you look up tray processing or development by inspection you might find it. No one ever goes into great detail though. I think Scooter is right.

 

[Roger Hicks]

... something they teach in their workshops and ask that people do not share the technique.

Secret weapons and magic bullets.... Oh, dear.

Anything I can do, I'll teach someone else to do, and hope they can do it better. That's what www.rogerandfrances.com is all about (all right, I charge for part of it, so I can afford to do all of it). Technique is something anyone can (and should) learn and can (and should) pass on. Artistry is the bit you do for yourself.

That's how I learned, after all. Well, that and trial and error.

 

[Marc .]

Hi All,

I've been trying to find a description of the Smith/CHamlee tray developing technique, both in the APUG and AZO forum archives, and haven't had any luck. Can someone point me in the direction of such a description? Thanks,

GB

Hello,

At least here you will find a description of their technique :
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
The rest of the thread can be viewed clicking on the upper right.

Marc

 

[scootermm]

roger, just for the record, Ive never taken their workshops (and likely wouldnt even if I could afford to), and have and will ALWAYS openly share any and everything Ive learned.
Assuming I was correct in my initial thought of it being "for workshops only".... not sure if thats true or not.


secret weapons are for James Bond.

 

[herb]

smith chamlee method

I don't think they consider it a big secret. You develop by shuffling the sheets one on the bottom, top to bottom, emulsion side up until 60% of what the ususal development time has passed. You then take a sheet and hold it up to the dark green safelight and see how it is doing.

If it needs more time, you can use a Gralab timer and go ten or 15% more, check it again, etc.
Don't get closer than three feet to the safelight and not for very long.
At first you can't tell anything, but practice will keep you from not having any shadow detail.

This takes some practice. I do it most of the time, and can get moderately close to what I want, although by no means an expert. You can email Michael, and I suspect he would answer if he is not on assignment

 

[rmolson]

tray development

It always surprises me, but it shouldn’t , there is nothing new under the sun. In the 60's we developed graphic arts continuous tone separation film in trays, all four sheets at once and interleafing them as we went As the different printers had different developing times the longest went in first and holding the other three sheets with one and an eye on the GraLab the other printers went in accordingly with the other hand.. Separate development would require fresh developer with each sheet for consistence , so all four were developed at one time , and also for the sake of time. We also used a full gallon of developer for a 16x20 size so the film had plenty of liquid between sheets .However we placed the film in emulsion down to insure even and rapid contact with the developer. Never had a scratch in all the years we did it this way and never wore gloves. ,never occurred to us. Brown fingernails were a sign of profession.

 

[Roger Hicks]

roger, just for the record, Ive never taken their workshops (and likely wouldnt even if I could afford to), and have and will ALWAYS openly share any and everything Ive learned.
Assuming I was correct in my initial thought of it being "for workshops only".... not sure if thats true or not.


secret weapons are for James Bond.

Sorry! Didn't mean to imply for one second that you were part of the conspiracy -- that certainly didn't come across from your post.

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

I'm not sure anyone has at this point, but I think it would be ludicrous to imply that Michael and Paula have done anything but work very hard to help further and promote photography and education in just about every way possible.

My goodness, just take one look at their accomplishments, web info, their Azo forum, their efforts to bring back a silver chloride emulsion and the gift of publishing that is Lodima Press.

As I said, I don't think anyone has openly done so at this point, but if anyone does accuse them of holding back I think it would only be appropriate to show how that person has themselves done anything remotely close to better the medium.

 

[naaldvoerder]

Actualy the method is described on their website, which, by the way, didn't cost me money ro get acces to. Knowledge spread free of charge, like it should be.

Jaap Jan Helder

 

[donbga]

Sorry! Didn't mean to imply for one second that you were part of the conspiracy -- that certainly didn't come across from your post.

I've taken their Vision and Techniques workshop and there are no secret methods taught. Their main thrust for developing film is using a green safelight to do development by inspection.

None of their students had to make any vows of secrecy or sign any non-disclosures. Michael and Paula are very open about sharing their knowledge about their methods.

Check the AZO forum for information and ask questions on the forum if one is interested.

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

I'm not sure anyone has at this point, but I think it would be ludicrous to imply that Michael and Paula have done anything but work very hard to help further and promote photography and education in just about every way possible.

My goodness, just take one look at their accomplishments, web info, their Azo forum, their efforts to bring back a silver chloride emulsion and the gift of publishing that is Lodima Press.

As I said, I don't think anyone has openly done so at this point, but if anyone does accuse them of holding back I think it would only be appropriate to show how that person has themselves done anything remotely close to better the medium.

Well said, Shawn!

I attended Michael and Paula's 2006 Sedona workshop and consider it time and money very well spent! Michael and Paula are excellent teachers.

 

[Alex Hawley]

There's never been any secret technique to tray developing. Ansel Adams describes how to do it quite adequately in "The Negative". There's no more to it than that.

It just takes some practice to learn and routine use to keep proficient.

 

[colivet]

Development by inspection is written in one of their papers and it is nothing you need to take a workshop for. Put your sheet of film in the tray, develop 70% of the way and take a peek. If the negative looks thin go for another 2 or 3 minutes and check again. You may not get optimal negatives the first time but it really doesn't take much to learn it. Remember photography is a visual art, so learning to se and trusting your eyes is the only way.

 

[Chris Breitenstein]

If you are referring to developing by inspection its right here.

http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/devinsp.html

Their tray shuffling technique has to do with pulling each sheet of film out square, to avoid scratching on the corners and turning the stack around every time you go through the stack.

Yours;

 

[Dave Miller]

Secret weapons and magic bullets.... Oh, dear.

Anything I can do, I'll teach someone else to do, and hope they can do it better. That's what www.rogerandfrances.com is all about (all right, I charge for part of it, so I can afford to do all of it). Technique is something anyone can (and should) learn and can (and should) pass on. Artistry is the bit you do for yourself.

That's how I learned, after all. Well, that and trial and error.

Well put Roger, that's how it should be. It's a safe route because what we do is mainly a craft that takes time to learn, and many years to perfect.

 

[Scott Peters]

A couple of thoughts - Michael and Paula earn part of their living doing workshops - and the worshops are SO much more than tray developing...and they are well worth it if you would like to refine your vision and have a quality critique of your portfolio. Given the amount of time spent in the workshop, it's very reasonably priced.

Secondly, as others have shown, there are links to the technique.

Finally, if done correctly, you can tray shuffle EFKE film with no scratches (at least that is my experience in pyro). Wear nitrile gloves and you will have no brown fingers either! .

I will stack the film, fan it so you can put individual sheets into the pre-soak, then dry hands with towel over shoulder and then put nitrile gloves on. It's easier to fan and get negs in the pre-soak that way. Emulsion side up, shuffle from bottom to top. check for highlights at 60-70% (I even go 80%) under a green light.

It is a nice way to develop and maintain some visual control, even though I time the entire process anyway as a 'judge'.

 

[gbenaim]

Thanks everyone. I should have been more specific. I've been using DBI after reading Michael's article for some time. I just wanted to get specifics on their tray development as I remember some useful tips to avoid scratching. Michael's post is helpful, as others too. Mike, I just got the C-1 today, but will keep you posted as I go. Take care,

GB

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

Thanks everyone. I should have been more specific. I've been using DBI after reading Michael's article for some time. I just wanted to get specifics on their tray development as I remember some useful tips to avoid scratching. Michael's post is helpful, as others too. Mike, I just got the C-1 today, but will keep you posted as I go. Take care,

GB

To avoid scratching, Sacrifice a few sheets of film and practice your film stack shuffling technique with the lights on.

 

[photomc]

Glad to hear that GB, you are going to have a lot of fun when you pull that first nice 8x10 negative out - bet it blows you away like mine did me. Keep at it, there may be a few ups & downs, but you will get some good work.

Tom's advice about scarifice a few sheets to practice is good. I would offer more, but I process mine in a Beseler drum and roller. When I do use trays, I do not use DBI (though I have thought about it) and I process 1 sheet at a time, guess I haven't taken the time to become proficent with the bif sheets.

Good Luck

 

[RobertP]

Plus I think someone mentioned that DBI with the green safelight doesn't work very well with tmax.

 

[philsweeney]

http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/writings_topost.html