Small white spots appearing only on RC prints and only after a few weeks

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four-by-five

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Hi everyone,

while going through my print "archive" again, I noticed quite a few of my prints have started to develop circular white spots, only a few millimeters in diameter. It's not the first time I've noticed that but now it's starting to affect more and more prints. I am 100% sure it's not dust, neither on the negatives printed from or the paper itself.

The interesting thing is that I can barely make out any real pattern here:
The affected prints have been made a few weeks to months ago, older prints are not (yet?!) affected. All affected prints were of the RC variety, old and new paper alike, made by Ilford, Foma, Labaphot and Agfa. The fixer used was Rollei RXN Neutral at a dilution of 1+4 – as is the case for all my prints and film. I fix RC prints for two minutes, increasing the time as the fixer exhausts. I must admit that my fixer is sometimes a bit "old" and possibly exhausted, I have started to have a better eye on that and also practice two bath fixing now. I wash my RC prints by giving them a two minute rinse under vigorous flowing water, leave them in a fresh water tray for approx. 5-10 minutes with water swaps, take them out and rinse them again for a minute. The washing procedure is of course different for fiber base papers. Some of the prints were toned in selenium, some not. As the toner did not immediately create spots, I feel it's rather unlikely that underfixing or underwashing is causing the specks. My final step, before hanging the prints to dry, is to give them a wash in Adostab, a stabilizer with washing aid. I store my unframed prints in old cardboard boxes in a room of normal humidity and temperature, away from sunlight. My framed prints of roughly similar age – despite using the same paper and process! – are unaffected.

I tried to get rid of the spots on the affected prints – to no avail. Re-fixing, washing, thio clear bath, none of it made any difference.

With all of the above in mind, I think it's either my storage being subpar, me washing too much or the wash aid/stabilizer being unfit. Yet, none of this would explain why it's only newer prints that are affected.
I'm all open for clues and/or hints. This is so terribly frustrating to witness, especially with more involved prints; two bath lith, special toning, fine dodging/burning, etc., all for nothing in the end.
Also: is it possible for those white spots to "infect" currently unaffected prints too?

I'll try and get a scan of some affected prints over the coming days.

Thanks everyone :smile:
 

miha

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My final step, before hanging the prints to dry, is to give them a wash in Adostab, a stabilizer with washing aid.

The Adostab might be the culprit. Do you wipe or squeegee off the Adostab, or do you just let it dry, including the droplets on the prints?
 
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four-by-five

four-by-five

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The Adostab might be the culprit. Do you wipe or squeegee off the Adostab, or do you just let it dry, including the droplets on the prints?

I let it dry just like that, no wiping/squeegeeing. The droplets usually run and drip off the prints after just a few minutes. I suppose that might be it, perhaps!

Funnily enough, I did read a forum thread somewhere else (I believe in a German Leica forum, IIRC) in which someone noted that such stabilizers were unsuitable for photo paper of any kind. The Adostab II bottle does list a process time for RC paper, though, which is contradictory.

Thank you for your very quick and informative reply, miha!
 

pentaxuser

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A puzzling one for me but it will be interesting to get to the cause of a problem which I don't think I have seen mentioned on Photrio

pentaxuser
 

miha

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I let it dry just like that, no wiping/squeegeeing. The droplets usually run and drip off the prints after just a few minutes. I suppose that might be it, perhaps!

Funnily enough, I did read a forum thread somewhere else (I believe in a German Leica forum, IIRC) in which someone noted that such stabilizers were unsuitable for photo paper of any kind. The Adostab II bottle does list a process time for RC paper, though, which is contradictory.

Thank you for your very quick and informative reply, miha!

You are welcome, four-by-five. From Agfa Sistan documentation (Adostab is Sistan): NB! Too high a Sistan New concentration can lead to stains which take some time to appear particularly if prints are in close contact (stored stacked). Care should then be taken that the fronts and backs of prints are wiped before drying to avoid partial over-concentration caused by dried drops of Sistan New. Pinch and transport rollers on mechanical processors and continuous dryers should be carefully wiped clean to stop the Sistan New solution crystallising on them.
From ADOX: Wipe, dry and you´re done.
A horror story, a case where Sistan ruined everything: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/sistan-ag-stab-destroyed-most-of-my-portfolio.118908/
 
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four-by-five

four-by-five

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You are welcome, four-by-five. From Agfa Sistan documentation (Adostab is Sistan): NB! Too high a Sistan New concentration can lead to stains which take some time to appear particularly if prints are in close contact (stored stacked). Care should then be taken that the fronts and backs of prints are wiped before drying to avoid partial over-concentration caused by dried drops of Sistan New. Pinch and transport rollers on mechanical processors and continuous dryers should be carefully wiped clean to stop the Sistan New solution crystallising on them.
From ADOX: Wipe, dry and you´re done.
A horror story, a case where Sistan ruined everything: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/sistan-ag-stab-destroyed-most-of-my-portfolio.118908/

Wow, thank you for the research!! I just downloaded a copy of the documentation myself, I knew that Sistan was Adostab's "predecessor" but I never thought to look up its datasheet...

That sounds exactly like the issue I'm having here, especially since the described problematic way of handling the prints is storing them stacked and without a prior wipedown.

As for the horror story, I'm at a lack of words. That's so infuriating! Me myself, I've lost some amazing prints that way now but not my entire portfolio (knock on wood...), I'm so sorry for him!

I'll see to either remove Adostab from my RC workflow entirely or at least make sure my prints get a really good wipedown.

Again, thank you so much!
 

koraks

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I'll see to either remove Adostab from my RC workflow entirely or at least make sure my prints get a really good wipedown.

Sorry to hear about your problem. The good news is that apart from a decent wash and ditto storage conditions, your prints need nothing else. If you tone your prints, make sure to wash them after toning. The rest of your workflow sounds fine; I'd just skip the Adostab.
 
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RC prints are easily washed to as permanent as they can get. You don't need a stabilizer. Using it on fiber-base papers is questionable IM-HO, but may help longevity when processing can't be carefully controlled.

If you really want to continue using the stabilizer, get an appropriately-sized windshield wiper and use it to squeegee your prints. Wash and clean up well afterwards.

Best,

Doremus
 
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