Small particles in mamiya sekor 80mm f.28

[Mani_Reshad]

Hey everyone!
I bought this Mamiya C200 a while ago and I took some photos and developed it just to realise that there’s something wrong with the lens and since I‘ve never spent any time out of the darkroom and on repairing cameras and lenses, I was wondering what are these things on my pictures which are clearly produced by the lens. The lens is a blue dot 80mm f.28 btw.
Sometimes it’s all over the photos and sometimes only some part of the frame. I can upload a picture of the lens but mostly looks like with dust and stuff but I’ve usually encountered such dust in lenses but never had any problems with them.

 

[MattKing]

That has nothing to do with the lens.
That is from dust/debris on the film itself.
Anything in or on the lens won't be sharp and well defined.

 

[Mani_Reshad]

That has nothing to do with the lens.
That is from dust/debris on the film itself.
Anything in or on the lens won't be sharp and well defined.

I honestly thought the same. But I developed and scanned it myself so I thought I’d clean out the dust and rescan it right away but when I went to the negatives these were part of the negatives, and they were photographed onto the emulsion and the thing that amazed me is the the lens is so sharp at even 2.8 and it‘s impossible(to my knowledge) to have dust, scratches or fungus photographed so sharply as if it was dust on the film itself. This was a test roll so I actually even tried to scratch out these black(white on negative ofc) spots but no luck. Do you think that it may be the dust that was placed ON the film prior to taking the photograph and somehow got photogrammed onto the film surface or something like that?

 

[Dan Daniel]

Yep, dust on the film itself. Probably flaking off of either the bellows or the camera body film chamber interior. Most anyone who has dealt with older folder cameras or sheet film has run into this. And yes, it is photogrammed. The particles are in the film chamber and settle on the film. Block light from hitting film. Creating black spots in final image. During subsequent handling the particles get moved away, but the lack of exposure remains.

Maybe remove the lens and extend the bellows out. Then take a damp paper towel and wipe the inside of the bellows to see if you pick up some material flaking off. It could be just collected while in storage and cleanig will take care of the problem. Or it could be that some material is decaying and will continue to keep 'shedding' like this. At which point you need to find a way to seal the interior to prevent more flakes.

 

[Mani_Reshad]

Yep, dust on the film itself. Probably flaking off of either the bellows or the camera body film chamber interior. Most anyone who has dealt with older folder cameras or sheet film has run into this. And yes, it is photogrammed. The particles are in the film chamber and settle on the film. Block light from hitting film. Creating black spots in final image. During subsequent handling the particles get moved away, but the lack of exposure remains.

Maybe remove the lens and extend the bellows out. Then take a damp paper towel and wipe the inside of the bellows to see if you pick up some material flaking off. It could be just collected while in storage and cleanig will take care of the problem. Or it could be that some material is decaying and will continue to keep 'shedding' like this. At which point you need to find a way to seal the interior to prevent more flakes.

Thanks a bunch, honestly I‘m relieved to hear this. I‘d rather have my whole belows replaced than to have difficulties with my lenses since it costs much less to do so. But I think that the problem will be resolved by a cleaning process since this was the first roll that was shot with this camera in years.

 

[MattKing]

If the dust is on the developed film when you scan it or print it, it will show up as white images, not black images, in the positives that result.
The debris could also come from seriously degraded backing paper, but backing paper problems usually manifest themselves in slightly different ways.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I honestly thought the same. But I developed and scanned it myself so I thought I’d clean out the dust and rescan it right away but when I went to the negatives these were part of the negatives, and they were photographed onto the emulsion and the thing that amazed me is the the lens is so sharp at even 2.8 and it‘s impossible(to my knowledge) to have dust, scratches or fungus photographed so sharply as if it was dust on the film itself. This was a test roll so I actually even tried to scratch out these black(white on negative ofc) spots but no luck. Do you think that it may be the dust that was placed ON the film prior to taking the photograph and somehow got photogrammed onto the film surface or something like that?

to me, it looks like dust in the enlarging or scanning process—definitely not in the lens.

 

[Mani_Reshad]

to me, it looks like dust in the enlarging or scanning process—definitely not in the lens.

Yeah as I said before, there was no dust and debris during the scanning process and I actually redidthe scan a couple of times to make sure; as Dan Daniel said, it’s the dust inside of the below which somehow got on the film surface and was in fact photogrammed onto the emulsion prior the lighting.

 

[Mani_Reshad]

If the dust is on the developed film when you scan it or print it, it will show up as white images, not black images, in the positives that result.
The debris could also come from seriously degraded backing paper, but backing paper problems usually manifest themselves in slightly different ways.

Dan Daniel said that it the dust and debris deposited from inside of the camera and managed to get on the film surface prior to the photographing stage and when I took photographs, those little particles of dust were photogrammed onto the picture and naturally removed during the development stage.

 

[250swb]

Dust on the negative. How do you dry your film, do you wipe it down with a cloth or paper towel?

 

[koraks]

to me, it looks like dust in the enlarging or scanning process—definitely not in the lens.

No, because that would have made the dust particles show up white, not black.

Dust on the negative. How do you dry your film, do you wipe it down with a cloth or paper towel?

Irrelevant; see above.

As pointed out before, it's dust that settled onto the film just prior to exposure.

 

[BrianShaw]

TLR, in this instance, appears to be a TRIPLE lens reflex.

 

[Ian C]

We’d like to know the specific film used. It’s possible that the film was contaminated during manufacture or spooling. If so, then the camera and its internal cleanliness played no role in the problem. Such contamination, especially given the large number of particles, is very unlikely with major manufacturers such as Kodak, Fuji, or Ilford.

For that much particle contamination to happen in the camera, it would be obvious upon an inspection of the inside of the open camera in strong light. If it looks clean, it almost certainly is clean. If so, that means that contaminated film itself is the likely cause of the problem.

 

[Tel]

Do what Dan says. Also, it’s important to note that there are two sets of bellows inside these Mamiya TLRs: there is a second bellows inside the one you can see from the outside, just for the taking lens. (Mamiya’s clever insurance against light leaks I suppose.) The smaller bellows is the one you want to clean out. Be sure to put the lock/unlock lever in the “lock” position so that the blanking panel is out of the way and remove the lenses and extend the bellows fully so you have a clear shot front-to-back for cleaning. Personally, I’d start with a thorough blast from a canned air duster thing in the lens opening, pushing any dust out the back. Then finish up with a careful wipe-down with something dust-free like microfiber cloth.

If the bellows are deteriorating and need replacing, get in touch with Bill Rogers (mamiyarepair.com).

 

[Dan Daniel]

Depending on what you find inside, Mani-Reshad, you might think about 'sealing' the bellows? I've used a mix of black acrylic paint (artist, not house) and white glue (Elmers in the US, polyvinyl acetate is the type I think). Thinned out with water, pretty much water thin. Wipe a light layer on the inside of bellows. Keep the bellows expanded and with circulation to dry. A couple of coats. After a few hours, exercise the bellows but then leave expanded for a day or two. You don't want the film to stick to itself. The idea is to put a THIN flexible film on the flaking fabric or such. I've had this really reduce flakes from 1930s folders.

 

[aconbere]

I had exactly this happen with my Welta Weltur. I diagnosed it as failing bellows. I just applied a dilute mixtures of PVA glue and matte black acrylic to the inside of the bellows to see if that will stabilize the fabric. But still working through the test roll

 

[MattKing]

there is a second bellows inside the one you can see from the outside, just for the taking lens. (Mamiya’s clever insurance against light leaks I suppose.)

It is that second bellows, combined with the lens changing "flap", that makes lens changing possible.