Small lab 16mm processing in the UK?

brenjacques · Jun 22, 2022

Hi all,

I know I'm asking for the impossible here but I'm glutton for stuff like this! At the weekend I bought a Zeiss Ikon Kinomo 16mm cine camera. It's a tiny little thing and initially I thought it was a 9.5mm camera until I had a closer look. The mechanism didn't run and the chap was asking £5 for it. As a cine related curiosity I couldn't turn it down and it came home with me.

Upon looking around and opening it up I found it had a fully exposed Kinomo S10 cartridge still inside and this was causing the mechanism to stall as it had ran to the end of its footage length. The cartridge is tiny and reading online it seems as though they only had about 30ft of film within them.

Curiosity has got the better of me and I'm determined to find a UK lab that can process it as B&W negative so I can see if anything survives on the film. I've done a bit of searching online and it seems as though nothing exists. I know of film rescue intl, but I don't really want to send it overseas and such a long distance.

I wouldn't suppose anyone knows of any smaller labs who process cine who might be willing to take such a thing on? Failing that if any member in here has a suitable tank and wouldn't mind giving it a shot then I'd be interested in sending it over. I have no cine tank myself and it seems as though they aren't a common thing either and very pricey too.

Any thoughts?

perkeleellinen · Jun 22, 2022

Have you checked with Gauge Film: https://www.gaugefilm.co.uk/processing.html

ic-racer · Jun 22, 2022

30 ft will yield a movie less than a minute at 24 fps and likely cost ten times what you paid for the camera.

awty · Jun 23, 2022

You can process it yourself with normal black and white chemicals and a bucket. There's some YouTube vids showing how.

AgX · Jun 23, 2022

ic-racer said:
30 ft will yield a movie less than a minute at 24 fps and likely cost ten times what you paid for the camera.

You are a spoilsport...

The issue is our cameras are too cheap.

perkeleellinen · Jun 23, 2022

ic-racer said:
cost ten times what you paid for the camera.

Sounds like my yearly photo budget!

Agulliver · Jun 23, 2022

Gauge FIlm could certainly do it, but as it's not part of their usual workflow it might well take them some weeks and be costly. A "normal" 16mm B&W neg process costs something like £30 these days I think. If you want to spend the money, they are excellent.

Alternatively process yourself as described. Is there any indication what the film is? Labs might be reluctant to attempt the process without knowing exactly what emulsion they're dealing with. If it was something like Kodachrome it might have a remjet layer which could gum up their B&W neg processing equipment.

The camera probably runs at 16fps so 30 feet would be under two minutes, something like 1m15 seconds.

Potentially I could attempt it, I have a suitable tank. But I'd also prefer to know in advance what the film is. B&W films do well in regular chemicals as negative. Kodachrome does better in caffenol, other colour reversal films can't be processed negative at all.

brenjacques · Jun 23, 2022

Thanks for the suggestions, I made contact with Gaugefilm but they no longer deal with old film as they had problems with some contaminating their developers. I tried another small lab but they only deal with E6 cine.

I was thinking of looking into bucket development but it would be difficult for me, as of yet I have no proper dark room set up.

Agulliver, I'd be happy for you to consider taking it on should you decide you'd be happy to. As far as I'm aware it's just standard black and white film, I did look at the tail end before it completely went into the cartridge and there was no remjet, just an off white shade emulsion.

The only reason I'd like to see if anything survives is mostly because I want to re-load the cassette with fresh 16mm, I think it would be a shame to just rip the old film out without giving it a chance to reveal its secrets.

ic-racer · Jun 23, 2022

AgX said:
You are a spoilsport...

The issue is our cameras are too cheap.

...no...he needs to process it himself.

Taxes and shipping ... I send my film to Yale, near Holywood, and with a listed price of $28 per roll, my Visa bill was almost $90 for the last two rolls I had processed.

Bronson Dugnutt · Jun 23, 2022

If you're willing to send it across the pond, my first thought would be to reach out to this fella. Processing & scanning found cine films has been a majority of his content lately, but you'll be waiting a while to get your cartridge back.

If you do attempt to develop it yourself and get pictures, you can try processing short lengths of film first. Dealing with 30ft of film in a bucket is even tougher than it sounds.

brenjacques · Jun 24, 2022

Bronson Dugnutt said:
If you do attempt to develop it yourself and get pictures, you can try processing short lengths of film first. Dealing with 30ft of film in a bucket is even tougher than it sounds.

Yes I can imagine any amount of cine film in a bucket can get messy! A proper tank would be ideal but I can't justify the cost for just one film. The rest of my cine stuff I send off to be processed and unlikely to develop at home.

ic-racer said:
...no...he needs to process it himself.

Taxes and shipping ... I send my film to Yale, near Holywood, and with a listed price of $28 per roll, my Visa bill was almost $90 for the last two rolls I had processed.

Cine processing is somewhat expensive, in fact cine all together is a very expensive format to use when considering the results are only a few minutes of footage. Cine is where it all started for me after being given my grandads camera and family movies that he shot in the 70s, so I always return to it. I suppose it takes dedicated enthusiasts to keep a format like this alive, especially with the costs involved. In a way I'm just glad that it's still something I can use.

Agulliver · Jun 24, 2022

I do have a suitable tank, though I cannot offer to scan the film as I don't have a 16mm scanner. I might be able to project the film, if there are images, video the projected images and can then invert them with software but that won't ever be as good as a proper scan. I suppose that might enable you to decide if you wished to get the film scanned professionally at a later date.

I'm happy to have a crack at processing it, with no guarantees. I've got the Lomo spiral tank that can take 8mm and 16mm film and use it quite regularly for 2x8mm film

If you decide you'd like me to try, rather than offering it to a lab abroad, send me a PM and I'll give you my address. I won't charge, as it's all rather intriguing and fun and my costs will only be pennies.

Agulliver · Jul 9, 2022

I have an update. I've processed the OP's film B&W negative and there are some images on it. The film is still drying so this sample is near one end and still wet. I just put the film up against a bright lamp, photographed it with my phone and reversed it electronically. I'll take another look likely tomorrow when it's fully dry. Fogged, but images!

foc · Jul 9, 2022

Thanks for the update and the image, good to get a result.

Agulliver · Jul 10, 2022

The film is now dry, I've had a look and most of it seems to have visible images, albeit fogged so low contrast. The film is Ilford, when did Ilford last make 16mm cine film?

OP suggested from my first image that this could be a camping holiday, and that's definitely a possibility.

Ian Grant · Jul 10, 2022

Ilford 16mm film was available into the 1990s, FP4 Plus was available as 16mm motion picture stock in 400ft cans., there may have been other sizes. I don't know when it was discontinued. FP4 Plus was introduced in 1990.

Ian

Agulliver · Jul 10, 2022

Good to know @Ian Grant

I knew 35mm Ilford cine film was available until about 1995, but wasn't sure at all about 16mm.

In the next few days I am going to mail this back to the OP, who might have it professionally scanned. As an exercise in retrieving what could be very old images, it was fun to play my part.

brenjacques · Jul 20, 2022

I want to express a huge thank you to Angus for processing this film for me. It's interesting to note the Ilford branding inside the cassette, it seems it has been re-filled and used in the past then!

I will have this transferred and post the results onto YouTube and provide a link, it will be interesting to find out an approximate date of when this film was exposed and work out how long exactly its been waiting in the camera for its chance to show the world its content.

Small lab 16mm processing in the UK?

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