small, compact, durable 120 cameras

[eddie]

I would not use a japanese window glass at my photography.

I don't know why you think Japanese lenses are inferior. It's something you repeat often, but it has no basis in truth.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Any recommendations? SLRs, TLRs, RF's, and folders... I want a small/compact 120 camera that I can carry on me at all times and "throw" around. I want something that is durable and has focusing abilities. I don't have a fixed budget, less than $2k I guess, and I just need one lens.

Hasselblad will do that for you plus you will have money left over to buy additional film backs allowing you to change from color to black & white or to change film speed midroll.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Nobody could claim a japanese lens is as good as cooke, dagor , protar , ektar. I can buy these lenses for less than 1000 dollars. They are hotrod , 3 times faster car than the ferrari. Why I would pay 2000 dollars to a fuji , 1600 cc toyota ? Can you see the same dimensionality , colors , relief , depth , tonality, noise at a japanese glass ? They are wrong to my eye. Kodak , Chance brothers for Cooke , Schott for Zeiss , Dagor , Leica were the largest glass makers and developers in the last century. I did not hear anything for japan , they copied everything. I love japan most , I love japanese people most , I am in to their poetry , literature , religion , architecture , woodworking , steel making , pottery, textiles , foods , botanics , martial arts , cinema and everything is the best quality but I cant accept their lenses and films.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I don't know why you think Japanese lenses are inferior. It's something you repeat often, but it has no basis in truth.

+1

The contrast may differ partially due to difference coatings but the best Japanese lenses are comparable to the best European lenses. Comparing equals to equals arbitrarily claiming the Japanese lenses are inferior is factually incorrect and cannot be argued by testing.

 

[eddie]

Can you see the same dimensionality , colors , relief , depth , tonality, noise at a japanese glass ?

Yes, I can. Last Spring, I bought a Fuji GW690II. It may have the sharpest lens I own, including Kodaks, Schneiders, Rodenstocks, etc. Your anti- Japanese lens bias has no real world basis.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I found japanese synths and amps inferior also. Sharpest , more contrasty lens is not better. I did see only one nikon picture in my life is good. And I saw few good pictures with mamiya and pentaxes in the gallery but they were like laser show and they cant take a smooth weston like skin tone. Have EW ,WHJ, AA ever used a japanese lens ?

 

[elekm]

I would get an inexpensive camera ... something less than $10, if you plan to "throw it around." That way, when it's damaged, your loss is small.

Probably a folding camera with a triplet.

 

[eddie]

I found japanese synths and amps inferior also. Sharpest , more contrasty lens is not better. I did see only one nikon picture in my life is good. And I saw few good pictures with mamiya and pentaxes in the gallery but they were like laser show and they cant take a smooth weston like skin tone. Have EW ,WHJ, AA ever used a japanese lens ?

There was a time (pre/post WWII) when Japanese goods were viewed as cheap copies, much as a lot of Chinese goods are today. But, that hasn't been the case for many decades. Their quality is every bit as good as the Germans, now.

As for why AA, EW, and WHJ didn't use Japanese lenses, I'd guess it's because there weren't any Japanese large format lenses when they purchased theirs. Or, if there were, they didn't find their way to the US. Just guesses... Maybe someone knowledgeable about Japanese photo history can chime in.

 

[Regular Rod]

Nobody could claim a japanese lens is as good as cooke, dagor , protar , ektar. I can buy these lenses for less than 1000 dollars. They are hotrod , 3 times faster car than the ferrari. Why I would pay 2000 dollars to a fuji , 1600 cc toyota ? Can you see the same dimensionality , colors , relief , depth , tonality, noise at a japanese glass ? They are wrong to my eye. Kodak , Chance brothers for Cooke , Schott for Zeiss , Dagor , Leica were the largest glass makers and developers in the last century. I did not hear anything for japan , they copied everything. I love japan most , I love japanese people most , I am in to their poetry , literature , religion , architecture , woodworking , steel making , pottery, textiles , foods , botanics , martial arts , cinema and everything is the best quality but I cant accept their lenses and films.

Have you used a lens from Japan?

RR

 

[alex gard]

my 500cm has survived everything I've thrown at it. It got CLA/unjammed after purchase (came to me jammed from keh) and has been incredibly reliable.

 

[msbarnes]

Fantastic camera but he said no folder for some strange reason...

RR

The reason why I said no folder is because I don't like the ergonomics. I had two solid folders (S. Isolette and S. Ikonta) but the ergonomic just got to me.

 

[msbarnes]

I would get an inexpensive camera ... something less than $10, if you plan to "throw it around." That way, when it's damaged, your loss is small.

Probably a folding camera with a triplet.

Less than $10 is a bit extreme!

 

[Pioneer]

I'm not sure I can call it a "throw around" camera but my Fuji GA645 is a very handy little 120 camera with a nice sharp 60mm lens. Autofocus and auto exposure though you can go manual for both if you want. It is just about as close as you can get to a point and shoot in medium format. I love mine, and most people who own them feel the same.

It is certainly not a Rolleiflex by any means, but it is a very good camera that is always nice to have handy. I own a very nice Rolleiflex and when I have time to work with it I will take it. But the Fuji GA645 is for those times when you may not have the leisure to work slow.

 

[Bill Burk]

The reason why I said no folder is because I don't like the ergonomics. I had two solid folders (S. Isolette and S. Ikonta) but the ergonomic just got to me.

Ikonta was my hunch, when you said ergonomics and folder in the same sentence. Bessa II is really better in that department.

 

[msbarnes]

Ikonta was my hunch, when you said ergonomics and folder in the same sentence. Bessa II is really better in that department.

How is the Bessa II different? The Bessa II is the old German one and the Bessa III is the GF670, right?

 

[Terry Christian]

Regarding TLRs that can take a licking and keep on ticking, other than Rolleiflexes I'd suggest any of the Mamiya C-series (I have the C3) or a Ciro-flex. Mamiyas are heavy as boat anchors but take fantastic photographs. Ciro-flexes are quite light, but tough, and unrefined in comparison to other TLRs. However, that means there's little to go wrong with them apart from the shutters.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I found japanese synths and amps inferior also. Sharpest , more contrasty lens is not better. I did see only one nikon picture in my life is good. And I saw few good pictures with mamiya and pentaxes in the gallery but they were like laser show and they cant take a smooth weston like skin tone. Have EW ,WHJ, AA ever used a japanese lens ?

This sounds more a matter of taste than based on the optical prescription and performance.

 

[02Pilot]

Regarding TLRs that can take a licking and keep on ticking, other than Rolleiflexes I'd suggest any of the Mamiya C-series (I have the C3) or a Ciro-flex. Mamiyas are heavy as boat anchors but take fantastic photographs. Ciro-flexes are quite light, but tough, and unrefined in comparison to other TLRs. However, that means there's little to go wrong with them apart from the shutters.

No experience with the Mamiyas, but I have to concur on the Ciro-flex. If you can get past the relatively cheap construction and slightly rough feeling of the controls, the thing is pretty bombproof. The Alphax shutter, at least, can be serviced very easily with minimal disassembly. The lens on mine is only a triplet, but it's coated and performs well.

 

[revdocjim]

I confess, I haven't read all five pages, but if you want durable then one of the Fuji GA645 series is the ticket. The GS645 are much more fragile.

 

[revdocjim]

Nobody could claim a japanese lens is as good as cooke, dagor , protar , ektar. I can buy these lenses for less than 1000 dollars. They are hotrod , 3 times faster car than the ferrari. Why I would pay 2000 dollars to a fuji , 1600 cc toyota ? Can you see the same dimensionality , colors , relief , depth , tonality, noise at a japanese glass ? They are wrong to my eye. Kodak , Chance brothers for Cooke , Schott for Zeiss , Dagor , Leica were the largest glass makers and developers in the last century. I did not hear anything for japan , they copied everything. I love japan most , I love japanese people most , I am in to their poetry , literature , religion , architecture , woodworking , steel making , pottery, textiles , foods , botanics , martial arts , cinema and everything is the best quality but I cant accept their lenses and films.

You obviously "see" exactly what you want to see... objectivity is slippery little bugger isn't it?

 

[AgX]

Less than $10 is a bit extreme!

I do not get your point. There are cameras at this price that fit your requirements of post #1.

 

[baachitraka]

I saw couple of Agfa Isolette II with Apotar lens selling for less than Euro 10 in ebay, some weeks ago. Seems nobody was interested to bid on that day...

One thing that I do not like about the folders esp., Isolette is the lack of safety pin that prevents the opening of the folder plate. I always have to carry the dirty old leather cover...

 

[msbarnes]

I do not get your point. There are cameras at this price that fit your requirements of post #1.

Which 120 medium format non-folder cameras with focusing abilities meet this criteria?

 

[AgX]

Agfa Isola in the triplet version. Limitations are the few settings of the shutter.
But in the same price range I also got a folder with triplet, rangefinder and better shutter.

 

[Xuco Martin]

If you can afford a large outlay, opts for Fujifilm GF670
6x6 and 6x7 have. this is my favorite camera
http://www.flickr.com/photos/felixucomartin/6523743083/
which is more sack of ride my Fuji GA645.
Negative results of the 645 are all bad. but do not compare with those of the 670 or 6x6 or 6x7.
the advantages a new brand with service and spare parts camera.
disadvantages have to be careful with it